October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online
7 registered (italiansxs, Austin Hawthorne, johnr, 3 invisible), 39 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12102 Members
9 Forums
27453 Topics
355975 Posts

Max Online: 286 @ 02/18/13 06:38 PM
Google Ads
Topic Options
#341670 - 10/15/13 07:06 PM Baker Batavia Special
popplecop Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 566
Loc: Centeral Wis.
Picked up a Batavia Special with 2 sets of barrels. They are serial numbered to the gun first is: 28" appears to be IC & IM, 2nd set is 30" F&F and are stamped 3"on the flats. Shotgun is in nice shape and locks up tight with either set of barrels. All serial numbers match, no cracks. May have been restocked as the semi beavertail forend is almost totally covered with checkering, nice wood in the stock but has a Winchester sporting clays pad, has hard insert in the top.

When did the 3" 12 ga. shell come in to being? This shotgun seems to have a lot metal in the breech, not a light weight SxS. Thanks for any info on a Baker 2 barreled set.

Top
#341684 - 10/15/13 09:41 PM Re: Baker Batavia Special [Re: popplecop]
Researcher Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 4380
Loc: WA/AK
Paper Shotshell Lengths

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of paper shotshell lengths is in 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.

That pretty much covers paper shotshell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shotshells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage. The maximum smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell and the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell were a bit lighter than those offered in 2 3/4 inch and longer shells.

While Baker Gun & Forging Co. would likely chamber their higher grade guns for any length shell the purchaser requested, it is equally unlikely a "made for stock" gun like a Batavia Special would have left the factory with anything but standard chambering.

Top
#341741 - 10/16/13 10:52 AM Re: Baker Batavia Special [Re: popplecop]
Drew Hause Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 4959
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
Daryl's site lists the Batavia Special as being made only 1907-1912 www.bakercollectors.com



The standard loading for the 3" 12g in that period was 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 dram.
_________________________
Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."

http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home


Top
#341765 - 10/16/13 04:25 PM Re: Baker Batavia Special [Re: popplecop]
popplecop Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 566
Loc: Centeral Wis.
I was surprised that they would produce this model with an extra set of barrels. Everything is serial numbered the same. Suppose it is quite possible that the Full choked set of barrels had the chambers lengthened and the gunsmith stamped 3 IN on both barrel flats. Thank you for the info on the 3" 12 back then. This SxS has heavy breech's, would like to try some 2 3/4 bismuth in it, but am worried about pressures. Stock in great shape now, better use one of my newer 12 SxSs as I have been doing. Again thanks.

Top
#341781 - 10/16/13 08:01 PM Re: Baker Batavia Special [Re: popplecop]
Researcher Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 4380
Loc: WA/AK
I've reviewed many of my old America double gun manufacturer's catalogues. I find extra sets of barrels regularly offered in Remington Arms Co., A.H. Fox Gun Co. and Parker Bros. catalogues. Don't see them mentioned in most of my Baker Gun & Forging Co. catalogues and price lists. The one Baker catalogue I have that does mention extra sets of barrels is from the time after the Batavia line had been replaced by the Black Beauty and Black Beauty Special. All this doesn't mean to imply that one couldn't send your Batavia Special back to the factory for an extra set of barrels. I'm sure Baker, like all of our manufacturers, would do whatever the customer was willing to pay for!!

As far as the chamber length, in those days from the 1890s to the mid-1920s most of our double gun manufacturers didn't mark the chamber length on their guns. Actually they often didn't even mark the gauge on the guns!! Chamber length and load data usually only appeared on the hang-tag.

Top



doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2013 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un moderated public forum.