doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Myth of unsafe Damascus still alive

MNGUNDOG---I think we all try to use loads sensibly , and around 7000psi or below. In my 1865-1870 guns, I try to stay about 6000-6500 psi and after turn of the century go back to 7000psi. One of the major reasons is to not damage the wood fit around the action and locks with sharp loads.

When many of us started out we were sucked into manufacturers' myths of big noise, heavier load, larger gauge are better. Over time we discover less noise and recoil provides better results and more pleasurable shooting. The biggest dividend comes from practise. Go shooting, forget shopping.

Ditto Mr. Stallones and King Brown. I use 7/8 oz handloads over Clay Dot at around 7,000 psi. They never fail to bring down a clay or a dove if I do my part. I also occasionally use 1 oz factory at + or - 1,200 fps.

I would throw out another bone to chew on. IF damascus barrel are so weak and dangerous,why aren't all the gun shows littered with examples of guns,even JABC's, with blown barrels??? Instead they are littered with old doubles that rattle when shaken,with missing hammers and broken stocks,obviously subjected to serious abuse and Lord knows what loads,and yet the barrels,even badly pitted remain
intact. I too have read the warnings on the manufacturers shell boxes all my shooting life, and thank them for contributing to my collection....

Pretty careful. I shoot RST exclusively in my damascus guns, especially those with short chambers. The good new is there has been such a resurgence in damascus that ammo is generally available (although probably not from the big-name manufacturers).

An excerpt from a 2011 article by Masssad Ayoob:

"Blow-ups" happen with shotguns, too. From the 19th century into the early 20th, it was in vogue to use Damascus steel in shotgun barrels. This was a legacy of lower pressure black powder. Modern smokeless powder that became state of the art in the late 19th century created greater pressures, and soon Damascus steel was rendered obsolete in the manufacture of shotguns. Unfortunately, guns are the ultimate "durable goods," and old shotguns were fired with new shotgun shells. People started noticing that they blew up when this happened. As the old guns got older and the steel deteriorated, and the new shells became more and more powerful, they blew up more often.

By the time this old man started learning about guns in the 1950s, it was already understood that you didn't fire modern shotgun shells in old Damascus barrel shotguns! Unfortunately, this wasn't understood by everybody, and the tragic gun blow-ups kept happening. Half a century later, this writer owns exactly one Damascus barrel shotgun. It's a fine old Lefever double-barrel I inherited from my dad. When I was young, Dad would fire light trap loads through it. The gun is a half a century older now, and so am I. I follow a simple rule with it: I don't fire it at all. It remains silent, a legacy of the past, like the stand-up 1940s radio I also inherited. It's a decoration, not a tool anymore. I would advise anyone reading this to treat their Damascus barrel shotguns the same way.

I took exception and emailed him. I pointed him to Sherman Bell�s DGJ articles. I pointed him to Drew�s site. I pointed him to the Vintagers. I reminded him of English proofs. I explained the difference between fusion and filler welds. Waste of time.

We exchanged a few emails, he said it was all very interesting but, he stood by his opinion that Damascus is unsafe.

Last time someone gave me shit I had a �hold my beer and watch this� moment and intentionally doubled my Lefever twice. That will actually shut them up. They don�t need to know they are � oz fluff loads.

I'm new to the subject of fine double guns, hunting has been a lifelong passion of mine, given my schedule and location I'm able to get ample amount of hunting done. I somewhat disagree with your notion, however that is subject to another thread entirely.

I have always found it amazing that so many who have no experience with a thing have become an authority on that same object.

Two years ago I was told by a wizened old fella in his late 20's or early 30's that I could not catch big trout on my bamboo fly rods because they would tear up the rod. I asked him what he thought was used before the advent of fiberglass or graphite or what he thought of Ted Williams catching tarpon on bamboo rods. He gave me no answer and walked away. I had another equally experienced fella of greater age, probably in his early 40's, tell me that in these times you couldn't kill a deer with a longbow or recurve because you couldn't get close enough and they were too slow, deer would jump the string every time.

Can anyone tell me where these kinds of people are cultivated? Surely they were not born and had any kind of life experience.

Masssad Ayoob again shows us that he's full of crap.

I believe with certainty we're all learning here, friend. Opinions make the forum.