doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney-Carron Helicobloc

Don't recall anything from the literature indicating that the Helice action is "adjustable". If it were, I'd think that would have received prominent mention.

Soci�t� Verney-Carron fr�res Helice - Nr. 577296 of 1924

"As for the top lever stop, it might be explained by the fact that the Helice lockup system was adjustable for wear, and that hitting the stop meant that the adjustment had to be redone."


"To adjust for wear, remove pins 20 and 22 in the patent picture under the action bottom plate and turn #21."

Per WildCattle's instruction/opinion.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey;
If I am understanding this correctly you are saying the lever would originally have stopped right of center. After adjustment is made it will again stop right of center, only when in need of adjustment does it go to center.
This is different from my J P Clabrough & J P Sauer each of which have no adjustment & the lever has always stopped at center & always will. Also on my early Lefever the lever always stopped at center, bolt is adjustable but the adjustment doesn't affect lever position.

The fact that the Helice system uses the bolting principle of artillery pieces, that it requires only 4 parts, and that it's extremely strong (powder and shot charges listed) are the primary characteristics listed on p. 7 of the 1922 V-C catalog. It does refer to "progressive tightening", although as Miller explained, many doubles have that feature to compensate for wear. On p. 9 of the same catalog, there is reference to tightening if there's any play (which V-C explains as "very rare"). But they certainly don't tout the adjustability of the action in the same way as, say, Lefever did on his guns.

With my gun, when the action is closed, the top lever does not contact the stop - there is maybe a 1/8" gap. However, the lever can be pushed over to contact the stop. This is the case whether the gun is eased shut or closed "smartly."

Well I have never had a gun with this Helice system to study. There is very obviously "NO Comparison" to any of the three I mentioned. Two of these as I stated have absolutely no adjustment for wear built in. The lever on these simply comes to a stop when it reaches the center position with the bolts engaged but not hitting a stop or taper on their own.
The third one, the Lefever, is an early pivot lever gun. This gun uses a vertical rocking bolt which engages a notch in the square shouldered Doll's Head from the rear. A screw through the top tang in front of the lever bears on the top of this bolt. Tightening it presses the bolt down thus taking up wear. The lever is closed by a spring operating on the bolt itself & the bolt is stopped in its forward motion by the lever coming to its stop. It was not made, nor ever intended, as were neither of the other two to stop short of the center position.

I'm not really stating anything just yet, just composing posted info. Seems to be confusion as is it adjustable, is it not; if worn where would the toplever rest, etc. But for sure I would not attach much weight to the verbiage in the adverts. I have not seen any empirical data on the Helice, Helicobloc, etc. but as far as I know there is no gun that does not shoot loose. And the French are no exception. Outside of that, I'm just not sure for now.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

But not unusual for gunmakers to advertise that their guns never shoot loose--even if it's only advertising. For example, an ad for the Hunter Special in the 1940 Shooter's Bible: the gun has a "rotary bolt giving assurance against shooting loose." V-C was at least honest enough to note that it MIGHT happen . . . albeit rarely.

Raimey - here is another French double with a "Gripp Helico" and a top lever stop. Notice there is a bit of gap between the lever and the stop:



There are some more pics at Maisonnial

Interesting sideplated boxlock, very nicely engraved and someone obviously put a lot of effort into disguising it as a sidelock - at some point, you have to wonder if it would have been easier just to build a sidelock?

Yeah, I need to get back to this theme and now we know that V-C admitted the truth at least once. I'd really like to see the backside of the locks/sideplates of the A. Maisonnial - Royal Super Steel - Acier Superieur Triple Epreuve - Special Pour Pyroxylee. With that verbiage, I'm curious if the flats wear the imported tube stamp?





I think this to be a V-C with Acier Diamant on the flats with the imported tube stamp?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse