doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help identify double shotgun!!

Just wild conjecture, but it sounds like a country that had set it's cap for the 16 bore, if the 13 is one of the vulgar fractions. Ford may be able to elaborate but it seems that not near as many 12s were rolled out as 16s, which were typically stamped 16 and sometimes 17, 17/1, etc.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I see - but I have had several English guns with the "13" stamp as well - including a late 19th cent. hammer W&C Scott, a Harris, and a boxlock Turner among others - that I can remember specifically - and I do not believe England is or was ever known to lean towards the 16 gauge...
Anyway - the quest goes on....

The bore size was normally stamped by the proof house. They neiter add nor remove metal in the bore, but simply stamp what it IS. Realize that at the time these gauge sizes were marked checking was done with a plug gage & the bbl was marked per the largest size which would enter the bore to the specified distance (Usually about 9"). Nothing more was done to the bore except perhaps some final polishing. "IF" the bore which the proof house marked as a 13 had been enlarged to 12 it would have been Out of Proof when sold new, so very doubtful this would have been done. The bore size does not depict the actual shell the gun is chambered for. I have one old English gun with the bbls marked 14. It is old enough according to the proof marks to predate either the chamber marking or fractional sizes,as 13/1 for instance. It is quite pitted but the bores currently measure just under a 13 size & may be how it was made to begin with.

Thanks for clarifying that - does this practice based on your experience point to any other countries other than England and apparentely Germany? - as you know I have been tryng to find out the origin of this shotgun - so far unfortunately it's been essentially conjecture...nothing conclusive...
Thanks

... I also noticed that a four leaf clover is repeated among the scroll in various areas of the engraving - sometimes in miniscule detail...any particular significance?

Louis,

I concur with Oganza - that the gun is Japanese. I have a Kasuga 20 bore with the proof mark that's a BV under a Crown. I'll post some pictures soon. In the 90's the Gov of Japan required all guns to have a serial # of 11 digits or more, so many older guns with shorter serial #'s were re-stamped with the new 11 digit serial number. Japanese proof marks are almost non-existant on older guns and there seems to be have been no standard.

Oganza, It looks like on of your pics is a Kasuga (with the scalloped action) - is it?

Louis,

I'm going to make two post of 2 Japanese Guns - both made by Kasuga.

First is a 20 bore - It DOES have the BV proof mark.




The other photos are loaded to show the quality of these guns.

I also have a Kasuga but it has NO proof marks. Miroku seems to be the only Japanese company with consistent proof marks - even SKB and Nikko are inconsistent with their marks.

Louis,

Here is the 2d post. It's a Kasuga 12 bore.

It does NOT have the BV proof marks.

Hi Patrick! Thanks for the information and your feedback which makes a lot of sense. However, I have to admit that I remain skeptical - The only true commonality I see is the long stamped serial number - none of the other marks are the same at all - do these guns have a Japanese maker's name such as Kasuga on it? There are also considerable mechanical differences if you care to examine closely in the action such as the double screw in the center of top lever and the off set screw on the tang among many others differences - I also feel that there is a significant difference in the quality of the wood, and overall refinement / wood to metal fit /and attention to detail. ( I hope I am not biased in this statement).
Thanks

The similarities to this early twentieth cent. Webley & Scott are remarkable - Even the engraving type and style...Is this what they call the screw grip or treble action? The additional smaller screw on the top lever? What about the off set to the left side screw on the tang? Why was is placed in such a way?
Have you seen any Japanese English copies made with this type of action?