doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Would You Buy an Out of Proof British Shotgun?

I looked at your gun on GI and it is sure a dandy. The seller has the very best reputation and I'm sure would work with you in every way possible to be sure you're comfortable. I believe the gun was actually made by Webley & Scott ( absorbed into WR).

What are the proof marks? At the time this gun was made a lot were chambered 2 3/4" when made.

Joe:

The gun is marked as 2-1/2", so the chambers are definitely lengthened. I think this gun was made by AA Brown & Sons, who were making the Connaughts for Westley Richards and later apparently did some similar guns marked with their own name.

Rem

Buzz pretty much summed it up: Is this a gun you want to own for the rest of your life then pass it on? If the answer is no or I am not sure then I would pass. Just because you are willing to buy it does not mean you will have an easy time if/when you ever want to sell it.

I guess I'm not clear here. Does the price being ask reflect the proof situation? FWIW: AA Brown guns are generally quite lovely. From my perspective this isn't a safety issue, it's a resale issue.

A.A. Brown are still very much in existence and very highly regarded. They do certainly make fine guns in their own name.

Here lies the problem. No I would moy have a problem if it was done by a reputale gunsmith. But when you sell it over here in the US be expected to be asked "Is it in proof?".

A case of Caveat Emptor. One of the benefits is having access to a Proof House to be able to ascertain whether or not it is a good buy. I have bought (there is a legal way around it) quite a few out of proof guns but at a price where it was worth the risk of failure and that after having a good Gunsmith check it over first. I have only ever had one fail and that was put right and re-submitted for a pass. There is usually a good margin of strength built in. Some good bargins can be had this way. It would be interesting to here Smallbore's coments on this as he is in the Trade and will have a lot of experience in this field.

I can recall some time back a heated discussion on this forum about the pro's and con's of an American Proof House. Most were not in favour at that time but clearly there exsists a case for somewhere where guns can be tested properly. Better to fail in a controlled environment than between the hands. Cost of sending it to a Country with a Proof House would add quite a bit to the cost anyway. Lagopus.....

In the UK it would be illegal to offer for sale. You would have to sell it as a stock action and forend.

Well, you are in the USA. So he above does not apply.

You WOULD buy an out of proof US gun because there is no way of telling if it is in proof or not, as it was never proofed in the first place. Do correct me if I got any of that wrong, as I am in no way fully conversant with US gun history - as many of you will happily confirm!

So, if you would buy an out of proof American gun, why not buy an out of proof English gun? Materially, there is no reason to discriminate.

In either case you will still need to check that any work done to it is well done and has not affected it detrimentally.

The fact is, that outside the USA the gun is useless and cannot be sold.

It would need re-proofing first, and that involves cost and risk.

This is why, as a calculated risk, you will pay less in the US market for a British gun which is out of proof.

I'd advise that this is probably not a sensible buy unless you treat it as a gun which you bought cheap and will have to sell cheap when you re-sell.

If you want to use it and it checks out materially and mechanically, and you are not worried about re-sale as you want to keep it for years, it may be away to have a gun you could not otherwise afford.

Advertised wall thickness like other features is not always accurate.

If the wall thickness is verifiable, and all other things are good consider getting it. But you must go into it with you eyes open in terms of the future sales.

I no longer buy guns with an intent to sell them, but I do have to maturely judge whether I am flushing my money down the toilet. If the gun will be a big money loser then only you can answer if it is worth it to you.

Will you get $7,500 worth of value minus what you can sell it for? That value is what I consider gun pleasure rent. If so go for it.

Moreover you must consider the possibility of losing most if not all you have in a gun purchase and you are left with scrap value alone. If you loss tolerance is high then go for it. If like most it is not, then look somewhere else there are many $7,500 guns without issues

Well said. Familiar with the concept of "the greater fool"?