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Apr 26th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20 |
I am looking at a Westley Richards Connaught which a dealer has for sale. The gun is in extremely nice condition - virtually no bluing or case color wear and nearly perfect wood. The barrel wall thicknesses are excellent (minimum 33/1000s). There is, however, a fly in the ointment: the chambers have been lengthened to 2-3/4 inches from 2-1/2 inches and the gun was not resubmitted for proof. The asking price ($7,500) appears to reflect the issue, as other Connaughts I've seen on line go for substantially more. The gun would be my primary grouse and pheasant gun and I'd expect to shoot it with the same low pressure loads I currently use in a Thomas Turner I own that was manufactured in the 1890s.
So, the question: Would you purchase a gun of this quality knowing it was out of proof? I would condition the purchase on inspection by a qualified gunsmith have it inspected before accepting the gun.
All that being said, is this something I should consider or should I just walk away and look for something else?
Thanks.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
I am looking at a Westley Richards Connaught which a dealer has for sale. The gun is in extremely nice condition - virtually no bluing or case color wear and nearly perfect wood. The barrel wall thicknesses are excellent (minimum 33/1000s). There is, however, a fly in the ointment: the chambers have been lengthened to 2-3/4 inches from 2-1/2 inches and the gun was not resubmitted for proof. The asking price ($7,500) appears to reflect the issue, as other Connaughts I've seen on line go for substantially more. The gun would be my primary grouse and pheasant gun and I'd expect to shoot it with the same low pressure loads I currently use in a Thomas Turner I own that was manufactured in the 1890s.
So, the question: Would you purchase a gun of this quality knowing it was out of proof? I would condition the purchase on inspection by a qualified gunsmith have it inspected before accepting the gun.
All that being said, is this something I should consider or should I just walk away and look for something else?
Thanks. I have 'no dog in this arena" but- I would ask for provenance as to who/whom did the re-chambering- if the dealer does not know, I'd offer him less for the "alteration" to what passed proof and shoot 2.5" RST 1145 fps loads in it- as I do in my pre-1913 LC Smiths--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 |
If I really like the gun and it had that minimum thickness. I'd do the following making sure there are NO other issues with the gun :
*Negotiate the best deal you can on the gun since it is in fact out of proof.
*Shoot it with the low pressure loads recommended in the above post.
*Enjoy owning a really nice hand made British double at a bargain price.
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
Unlike the Brits I have zero problem shooting a gun out of proof IF it still has good wal thickness in the breech area, etc. A really good gunsmith will be able check all these things. A huge number of British guns in this country are "out of proof" and shot regularly with no ill effects. I shoot half a dozen hammerguns with low pressure nitro loads that only have black powder proofs. Same thing. And I feel perfectly safe doing so. The wall thickness in the forward part of the chamber and immediately in front of the forcing cone is especially important for you.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008 |
Can't say what you should do, but I wouldn't buy it except for a staggering low price - a price so low I could sell it the next day if I chose to.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
It is easy to sell a 2,500$ out of proof BLE, one for 7,500$ I'm not so sure about. If you might sell it in the future, being out of proof could be ab issue. If you are just planning to shoot it, have it checked, then decide.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,218 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,218 Likes: 121 |
Hi, the short answer for me is yes. I have a couple Brit guns that have had the chambers let out, but the wall thickness ahead of the let out chambers is in excess of .10 so they are thick enough to handle low pressure loads. They also have thicker than standard .025 WT up the tubes as well. If the barrels are sound, I see no reason not to buy and shoot her.
Joe pretty well hit the nail on the head with regards to this subject.
Best of luck to you!!!
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610 |
$7500 is too much money to pay for a gun that is not in proof. It weighs on the resale value and if you want to have it proved you take on all the cost and risk
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106 |
You could always ship it to England and have it reproofed. I try not to buy out of proof guns, not because they aren't likely safe, but because they will be harder to sell....and most guys buying these English guns know enough to check that stuff out. If it's a great deal I would probably be more inclined to overlook the out of proof business as long as the gun measures up and is safe to shoot.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56 |
I saw 2 Connaughts for sale early this year. One was close to new for $8k. I'm not sure $7500 is a good buy with the chambers changed. However, buying a Brit gun out of proof isn't a deal breaker, but it needs to be at the right price.
Ken
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