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Joined: Mar 2011
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Your best approach is going to be to bring the gun back using an importer/customs broker/ffl. I don't know if John Boyd in Houston provides this service, but he certainly would know how to do it. A little closer to you, but still on the wrong side of the Red River, TRI in DFW is in this business (handling customized imports). Their website is http://www.trimports.com/import-services.html and their phone number is 866-419-6271. Never done business with either of them (but I have friends who've bought stuff from Boyd and speak well of him).

From your address you appear to be a bit of a Boomer Sooner, but I'm afraid you're going to have to rely on the Texans. And starting now you'll never get this done before football season . . .

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https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/210/~/requirements-for-importing-new-or-antique-firearms%2Fammunition


Brian
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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Ted, unless Mr. Moore happens to hold a US FFL no document whether it is a receipt for ownership or a foreign country registration or what ever is going to be sufficient for him to import his own gun. He'll have to use an importer with an FFL.



That part of your post is also incorrect, George. You don't need to be an importer to import a gun. Anyone with an FFL can import on an "occasional" basis. I believe--working through an FFL in this country--Mr. Moore should be able to import the gun himself. He needs to get an approved import permit in his name, with the FFL signing the form as the applicant. I did this using a friend with an FFL (not an importer). The approved permit came directly to me. In my case, the gun was shipped from England to the States. I went to my local post office where the postmaster collected the import duty and customs processing fee. Walked out the door with my gun, completed paperwork with the FFL.



Larry you are a pretty smart guy and I have no doubt that you succeeded in figuring out how to import your own gun. I'll bet that required a pretty steep learning curve though.

However if I were in Mr. Moore's position and had the choice of negotiating both the French and American bureaucracy to import my Darne or auditing a couple of medical school classes and performing my own operation with local anesthetics, I would choose the surgery. I'll bet he ends up using an importer.

The only 'helpful' point I've tried to make in this thread has been to clear up the idea that the customs form 4457 is the ONLY method of proving you owned your shotgun before you carried it out of the USA. I think we are all in agreement on that now.

Your mention of having paid your customs tax/duty to the local Postmaster is interesting. It is my understanding that the postmaster is also an ex-officio customs officer. That's why he was authorized to accept your payment.

That being the case I wonder if the Postmaster can sign and stamp your form 4457? I live in a rural area which is not near any Customs Office. I never seem to have time in transit at the Atlanta airport to get my gun out of baggage and have the customs guys there check the serial number and sign the form.

My local postmaster once told me he thought he was authorized to sign the form. I've been using a 4457 signed by him with his local postmaster's stamp. Its never been questioned by any customs officer, even the gentleman in Minneapolis. Are you aware of any regulation authorizing a postmaster to sign off on a form 4457?...Geo

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Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Ted, unless Mr. Moore happens to hold a US FFL no document whether it is a receipt for ownership or a foreign country registration or what ever is going to be sufficient for him to import his own gun. He'll have to use an importer with an FFL.



That part of your post is also incorrect, George. You don't need to be an importer to import a gun. Anyone with an FFL can import on an "occasional" basis. I believe--working through an FFL in this country--Mr. Moore should be able to import the gun himself. He needs to get an approved import permit in his name, with the FFL signing the form as the applicant. I did this using a friend with an FFL (not an importer). The approved permit came directly to me. In my case, the gun was shipped from England to the States. I went to my local post office where the postmaster collected the import duty and customs processing fee. Walked out the door with my gun, completed paperwork with the FFL.



Larry you are a pretty smart guy and I have no doubt that you succeeded in figuring out how to import your own gun. I'll bet that required a pretty steep learning curve though.

However if I were in Mr. Moore's position and had the choice of negotiating both the French and American bureaucracy to import my Darne or auditing a couple of medical school classes and performing my own operation with local anesthetics, I would choose the surgery. I'll bet he ends up using an importer.

The only 'helpful' point I've tried to make in this thread has been to clear up the idea that the customs form 4457 is the ONLY method of proving you owned your shotgun before you carried it out of the USA. I think we are all in agreement on that now.

Your mention of having paid your customs tax/duty to the local Postmaster is interesting. It is my understanding that the postmaster is also an ex-officio customs officer. That's why he was authorized to accept your payment.

That being the case I wonder if the Postmaster can sign and stamp your form 4457? I live in a rural area which is not near any Customs Office. I never seem to have time in transit at the Atlanta airport to get my gun out of baggage and have the customs guys there check the serial number and sign the form.

My local postmaster once told me he thought he was authorized to sign the form. I've been using a 4457 signed by him with his local postmaster's stamp. Its never been questioned by any customs officer, even the gentleman in Minneapolis. Are you aware of any regulation authorizing a postmaster to sign off on a form 4457?...Geo


George, I'm pretty sure there are others here who have imported guns the same way I did, through a regular FFL (not an importer). Not really all that difficult, or at least it wasn't for me. Got the approved permit from ATF fairly quickly.

Not sure about a postmaster signing the form. I asked my postmaster (very small town in Iowa) about any issues before I had the gun shipped from England. She said she'd never handled a firearms transaction before, but she'd collected the customs fee and duty on other imported items. She didn't blink an eye on the gun.

My guess is, however Mr. Moore does it if he tries to bring the gun back with him, he's going to have a more difficult challenge on the French end (getting the gun out of France) than on the American end.

Last edited by L. Brown; 07/25/13 04:00 PM.
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The required ATF form used to be a form 6 part 1 I believe. Your local FFL dealer can fill it out for you. It would then need to be sent to ATF for approval. Upon approval it would need to be sent back with the gun or it will be seized by customs. What I did was have two german guns shipped back to Dulles Airport via Luftansa. I had sent the approved ATF form to the dealer in Germany and it accompanied the shipment. I also had to have a letter from my FFL dealer advising I was acting on their behalf and I paid the import duty and received the gun. I then took it back to my dealer and then he did the standard FFL form that was required for the Va state police back ground check so they could release it to me. It wasn't that hard, but is took a bit of time to navigate through all the wickets.


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I'm not at all positive, but the last time I checked you could buy a gun in France and walk out the door with it. Likewise, there was no issue with export. Better check on that, but that was so not so long ago.

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My friends who have shipped guns from europe to the US have had to have their FFL go in person to the airport and pick up the guns. What paperwork was required also varied by who was working at Customs. Sometimes we had to have them get out the manual and point out to them that we did have the correct paperwork. Even after this he said he had to talk to a supervisor and made us come back the next day. Talk to several people at ATF and Customs. After you get answers contact different people at each agency and get their answers and see if they mesh. Importing a gun is not as straightforward as it might be, but it is possible to do on your own with the assistance of a local FFL.
Regards,
Jeff


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Originally Posted By: wingshooter16
Don't know if I can be of specific help with your wanting to take it with you out of France...but I have imported a gun from France and a set of barrels for it is currently on the way. There are forms and taxes to get it out of France that will amount to about 500.00, and an import permit from the ATF on this side of the pond (and probably the utilization of a customs broker) that will run you as much or more. Feel free to PM me if I can be of any more assistance.

Mike


While you might be able to walk out the door in France with the gun you bought, getting it out of the country is another story--per the above.

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Coincidentally one of ours here just reported successfully walking through the importation process: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=332035&gonew=1#UNREAD

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: wingshooter16
Don't know if I can be of specific help with your wanting to take it with you out of France...but I have imported a gun from France and a set of barrels for it is currently on the way. There are forms and taxes to get it out of France that will amount to about 500.00, and an import permit from the ATF on this side of the pond (and probably the utilization of a customs broker) that will run you as much or more. Feel free to PM me if I can be of any more assistance.

Mike


While you might be able to walk out the door in France with the gun you bought, getting it out of the country is another story--per the above.


And thanks to Col. Brown for his translation help in making this happen. My second set of barrels should be leaving France shortly.


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