doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Bringing a shotgun back from Europe

Ted you probably ought to correct the US Customs and Border Protection Agency of the Homeland Security Department on their FAQs. They apparently think that a receipt will suffice in lieu of the 4457 form:

"3. Register any equipment with serial numbers on a Certificate of Registration form (CBP 4457) with an U.S. CBP officer prior to leaving the U.S. You must physically take the equipment to a CBP Port of Entry and have a CBP Officer fill out the form and stamp it. You will need to present the form when you reenter the U.S. with the equipment (if you have sales receipts for these items, you do not have to register them with CBP, but make sure you have the receipts handy)"

...Geo

Geo,
I actually only need to correct you, as it were.
You need to pay attention to the conversation at hand. Mr. Moore bought the gun in PARIS, for use in FRANCE-the "equipment" has NEVER physically been here in the USA. As you can imagine, this will impact greatly Mr. Moore's ability to present said "equipment" to a CBP officer prior to leaving the USA, for FRANCE, to bring his gun to his home in the USA. This is a critical point, since, no taxes or duty would have been collected in FRANCE for either Customs or ATF. If he had been able to present the gun to a CBP agent in the US, the onus of proof of payment of duty and taxes would be with the importer who's name appeared on the gun.

My quote, re-quoted by you, applies to him, and him only, due to his somewhat unique circumstances with this particular gun. I will also point out that in my experience, a gun being moved through US Customs attracts more attention then say, used stereo equipment. It is simply the nature of the beast.

The receipt for Mr. Moore's gun, purchased a decade ago in PARIS, will be of no use to him in dealing with either ATF, or US Customs, at this time. Firearms of the type that Mr. Moore owns fall into a catagory that has taxes levied on by both US Customs and the ATF. These taxes apply to both new and used items, and neither of these taxes have been paid on said gun. US Customs collects both taxes, (assuming he is not in the business of importing guns, anyway) but, will not collect the portion destined to ATF without an approved form 6. They will not release a gun without an approved form 6, either.

As they say at the Chinese laundry, "no ticky, no laundry". The ticket to getting this gun here, legally, will involve an FFL and an approved form 6.

And the payment of all duty and taxes.


Best,
Ted

How much is the Darne worth? If it is a low value gun is the export taxes (fees) and import duties worth it? You could end up spending a grand in importing a gun worth two. Would it make more sense to sell it over there and replace it here? Perhaps if the gun has a value over five grand you could justify the expense.

Per my experience. Find a friendly FFL who knows about ATF6 or is willing to work with you as you get the form and fill it out for the FFL. Submit the form per instructions and wait. Talk to ATF if you have questions. Take the the ATF6, a copy of the FFL license, and a letter from the actual FFL allowing you use of the license. When you return, the ATF6 approves the gun's entry into the US, the FFL gives the gun a legit place to go, and the letter makes sure you are allowed to take it to the FFL's store. The FFL must run the gun through his books. When he signs the gun out to you, it is legally yours here in USA.

I'd be very inclined to belive a V-22 Darne would be well worth the effort.

Hope that helps.

DDA

Uhh Ted, what possible use would a Form 4457 be to Berrien Moore in this situation? He bought the the Darne in Paris. He's never imported it to the USA. He could never have taken it to a customs office to have a Form 4457 signed.

Your quote as set out above says to me that the customs form is the only method of proving prior possession in the USA. That's simply wrong. A receipt or bill of sale is sufficient proof as set out in the Customs FAQs I quoted. The Form 4457 is only one convenient method of such proof, not the only proof available...Geo

Connecticut Stotgun has a Darne V-22 for sale (albeit in 20g) and the asking price is almost $20K. So it seems to be a good candidate for the trouble and pennies involved.

With kind regards,
Jani

Everything you say would be completely relevant-if, the gun had ever been here. Or, had been bought here. His receipt from France isn't going to help him. I can promise you if he showed up at the airport after returning from France with his V-22 and a receipt from a transaction in France a decade ago, he would not be leaving the airport with his gun, and might not even be going straight home. And, while form 4457 isn't the only such proof for proving prior ownership, it is the BEST. My point was that Mr. Moore shouldn't show up at Customs at the airport with his gun in his baggage and no way to prove it was his and he had acquired it legally. That's a no-no.

Hey, Jani,
The asking price on CSMCs V22 includes a stock that is pinned and a rubber extension under the original butt plate.
I think it will be for sale for a long time.

Ted, unless Mr. Moore happens to hold a US FFL no document whether it is a receipt for ownership or a foreign country registration or what ever is going to be sufficient for him to import his own gun. He'll have to use an importer with an FFL.

Your prior posts in this thread have given the impression that an American hunter who travels to Canada to hunt cannot bring his gun back into the USA without the 4457 customs form. I am just trying to correct that mis-information. Certainly the customs form is the easiest method of proving prior ownership in the USA, but not the only way...Geo

Ted,
I too think that it will be for sale for a long time.
With kind regards,
Jani

That part of your post is also incorrect, George. You don't need to be an importer to import a gun. Anyone with an FFL can import on an "occasional" basis. I believe--working through an FFL in this country--Mr. Moore should be able to import the gun himself. He needs to get an approved import permit in his name, with the FFL signing the form as the applicant. I did this using a friend with an FFL (not an importer). The approved permit came directly to me. In my case, the gun was shipped from England to the States. I went to my local post office where the postmaster collected the import duty and customs processing fee. Walked out the door with my gun, completed paperwork with the FFL. He should be OK with US Customs if he has an approved import permit. But there's still the issue of getting the gun out of France, which requires jumping through a few French hoops.

If he decides to use an American importer, John Boyd (Quality Arms), who's a sponsor here, is an importer.