doublegunshop.com - home Forums THE MARTIN/ZIMMERMAN TRAGEDY

King, thanks for replying.

My point is that the hope and change train left the station five years ago and no one has seen it since. We get that during his initial campaign his supporters around the world felt his election would usher in a new day.

But it didn't! And no one is arguing that.

I too, while I never would have voted for him, in the aftermath of the American decision to elect him in 2008, 70 million to 60 million, had hope his election might be a watershed moment in American race relations. A casting off of a heavy yoke. Sadly King we are all aware that has not been the case.

So my question is still, why are you talking about Obama inspiring hope when he has a proven track record of not being able to do anything to justify that hope? He is no longer a rookie.

I hope I win the lottery whenever I buy a ticket. I also know, by examining the historical record and the science of probability, that it is exceedingly unlikely my hope will result in anything tangible. But I do it because the occasional ticket allows me to day dream about the 10 million dollar SxS collection I might acquire.

Is that what you are doing, happily daydreaming about possible events exceedingly unlikely to occur?

I think specifically what I have difficulty with King is that you talk about the "hope" that emanates from the Obama election as though it is a current thing. And while it may have been there five years ago, that hope has evaporated.

King, I'd like to thank you for replying too!

Oops, my mistake... you didn't reply to me because I sometimes have bad manners... especially when I am talking about dishonest deceitful liars.

James, go out and buy that lottery ticket. You have a better chance of winning than getting an honest answer to your question.

I think it's an interesting reply King, but is there any possibility to consider results over feelings. I can't see any facts there, but that's not the point. In several different ways, you have confirmed that there should be prejudice based solely on skin color (colour?).

Hope-n-change was a campaign slogan, not what was preached. Quite a bit more was read from the teleprompter. I'd mention world respect since you believe 'possibilities have galvanised everywhere', and the glaring darkness when the sun was supposed to shine.

One more thing, King. Like you, the United States gives me hope.

Hope for a future world where ingenuity and hard work will always win out over laziness and entitlement. Where all are able to speak their minds. Where rule of law is universally acknowledged, especially by the ruling elites. Where the transition of power from one government to the next is regularly conducted in peace and with honour.

Sadly, the longer Obama is in power, the more my hope is diminished.

That narrows it; thanks. There must have been something---if not hope, what?---for the electorate to buy in at that critical juncture in the country's affairs. The pundits said it was the GOP's to lose. What did he have going for him other than expectations for something better? Which is a definition of hope to me.

I believe there was a lot more to sticking with Obama than measured triumphs in social welfare, stick-handling through the meltdown, pulling back outposts of an unwanted empire, telling allies they'll have to start pulling their weight---it's over for Americans dying and paying the bills as the world's policeman.

Using your lottery ticket analogy, what's wrong with a dream if the above is a tangible part of it, a promise of something better, a different way of looking at things? I kept faith in the US getting it right over time from years of reporting the good and the bad there. Electing Obama will last me all my life.

King, in 2012 Obama received 10 million fewer votes than he did in 2008.

In 2012 Obama received 2.7 million more votes than Romney, a 2 % advantage.

50% to 48% of votes cast according to the numbers DaveK posted above.

It's certainly enough to win the presidency but it hardly points to a consensus or even a strong majority of public opinion.

When I think of the facts I just noted above, it does not suggest to me that Obama is continuing to inspire in any but the most obtuse with hope for change. 15 percent of his own voters in 2008 just couldn't be bothered to go to the polling station just 4 years later. Where is the hope there? It's not like they switched their vote. They just didn't bother!

I know you are trying to think positively about a nation you admire, as I do. It strikes me that you are seeing that which you wish to see, rather than that which is.

I too think they got it right electing Obama over McCain in 2008. It could have been the start of something very good. The problem is, having made the monumental step of electing a black man President, they choose the wrong man. And instead, it could have been the start of something very bad.

King, for someone who's been everywhere and seen everything, you sure have low standards.

Canvasback, I told you that you had virtually no chance of getting an answer to your question, because King is still acting like a teenage girl at an Elvis concert in 1960. Elvis had a lot more substance than Obama though.

King asks what Obama had going for him other than expectations for something better? The answer to that would be Chicago style voter fraud. Outside of the black community which claims it is not racially biased, you'd have a hard time finding many people who will admit to voting for Obama.

'Other than expectations', I thought we were just (literally) told he had the colour of his skin going for him?

Tangible? Are these accomplishments that can be 'touched', or still just promises.

Between the hopium for old Bolsheviks and squealing girls at an Elvis concert I can hardly stop laughing long enough to write something coherent!

I've had my say, craig. We have different opinions. The tangibles of better lives for millions of Americans are mentioned in my second paragraph. Millions received better in health care, economic and gender equality, withdrawal from foreign entanglements, greater respect throughout the world.

Imagine the triumphant changes I see in the American human spirit from the civil rights struggle of barely 50 years ago, of cities burning, when America's finest troops with fixed bayonets forced the law, when a question for voter registration was "How many bubbles are there in a bar of soap?"

I was there through it all, and that's why I believe in the United States, and why the election of Obama to the presidency seems a miracle to me. (Knowing Fox is wondering about which soldiers, they were of the 82nd and 101st at Ole Miss; the night bayonet charge in Oxford's town square. Mostly black.)

Compare that to the United States of today. Fifty years ago Americans said being a Catholic shouldn't exclude from the presidency. I was there, too, when JFK broke through in the Wisconsin primary and then took next mostly Protestant West Virginia. Then, almost unbelievably, Obama six years ago.