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Joined: Jan 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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"Well, legimate proof marks don't contain misspelt words."
smile

I guess we are all just thinking out loud...but my point was that the mark "stil" may not be referring to steel at all. That seems to be an assumption - It is in four different places not just on the barrels - and it does mean "style" in German - that's for certain - Obviously the stamp "choke" is proper English...right?

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Sidelock
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While "choke" is English, it's certainly been used as a proofmark on guns of other than English origin. Belgian, for one.

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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Thanks for your input.
That's for sure - but that was not the point of discussion here. The Belgians made some guns often with English sounding names such as Richards, Manton, Moore,etc ...and so forth obviously sort of re-creating English guns - The proof marks were recognizably from Belgium however - although they could contain an English look alike stamp here and there. This gun has -no name- anywhere. I believe that we were questioning wether or not whoever manafuctured this shotgun took the arduous time to produce a very high grade boxlock double in every respect and then simply stamped meaningless marks and words that remotely seem like English - If you believe that theory it means they got one spelled right "choke" and two spelled wrong "ful" and "stil" (four times), and then a crown with letters that does no match anything thusfar recognizable. According to some people on this forum this is characteristically Japanese (although there is not one single mark associated with Japan)further substantiated by the long series of numbers on the action flat assumed to be a Japanese export control number.

Last edited by LuisHunter1; 07/15/13 07:23 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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probably a long shot - but I looked around for that MVT or TVM mark and come up with something for VMT which is/was a Finnish manufacturer.

quote:
In the 1920s the government of the young Republic of Finland decided to establish a rifle factory. In 1926, the district of Tourula on the northeast edge of Jyväskylä was chosen as the most suitable location. The first product of the Finnish State Rifle Factory (Valtion Kivääritehdas) was the Lahti-Saloranta light machine gun, which was followed also by relatively heavy weaponry, such as a 20mm machine cannon and a 20mm anti-tank rifle. Throughout the Second World War the factory worked non-stop to supply the army. According to the terms of the 1944 Peace Treaty, however, arms production was terminated. At the same time, none of the workers could be dismissed.

The Tourula factory was thus converted to produce goods for war reparations and civil use. Building and metal tools, dentist chairs and mechanical adding machines were produced for the domestic market that was rapidly rebuilding after the war. Binding and woodworking machinery was in turn produced as war reparations.

During the period of war reparations, the former defensive weaponry plants owned by the Finnish State were combined under a new organisation, the State Metal Works (Valtion Metallitehtaat, VMT). In addition to the Rifle Factory, VMT included a former Cannon Factory, an Aircraft Works and its engine plant in Linnavuori in Nokia, and the Pansio Ship Works.
unquote

http://history.valtra.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10%3A1926-kivaeaeritehdas-tourulaan&catid=5&lang=en

also, the NRA Museum has a VMT target 'Match' Rifle, made between 1937 and 1972
http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-...rget-rifle.aspx

So, the quality work was there - perhaps 'ful' and 'stil' make some sense in thefinnish language ?

as I said, probably a shot in the dark, but perhaps worth pursuing

Regards from England

Günter
NRA Life 1974

Last edited by Gunter; 07/15/13 10:44 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Thanks Gunter for looking into this mystery shotgun. I looked around and the comppany you mentioned produced only rifles - and supplied some parts for early Valmet Shotguns and shotgun rifle combinations very utilitarian type of guns here is what they looked like:

- and the story ends there apparently

Last edited by LuisHunter1; 07/15/13 07:53 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Could it be Swedish?

Choke in Swedish is surprisingly choke.

Stil in Swedish means style (and that is why I always thought the stamp is not referring to a type of steel - it refers to the style of the shotgun and that is why it is repeated four times - also on the action not just on the barrel flats.

Full in Swedish is fullständig but it is often abbreviated to simply ful

Well....surprise! surprise!

Still looking into the crown stamp with the letters...any help with that would be great.

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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I just stumbled over this eGun Rifle, please note the long number....!

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4457507

and on this note the Crown with Cross on the stock...!

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4493293

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Last edited by Gunwolf; 07/16/13 02:41 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Thanks for sharing!
So far this is actually the closest I have seen to it with different letters under the crown of course:

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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Well,

If you have a look here:

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4107179

MAERENS TOJHUS. = MT. !!!!

The year is 1911.......

BTH, I think STIL is a shortcut for whatever.


Regards,
Gunwolf

Last edited by Gunwolf; 07/16/13 07:11 PM.
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