doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney-Carron Helicobloc

WC- I understand, but he made an absolute statement that V-C did not have / never sourced the mechanics in Liege. It is in Gold, better than black & white, so my advice is to have an open mind and get the whole story. A catalogue for a concern is just chest thumping and the concern does not want you to know where or what they've sourced. This has been my theme the whole length. Am I wrong? You can set your Richter scale to the sensitivity that you desire.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Let me ask a very basic question and preface it with this: seeing V-C held all their cards, sourced in-house or in country, why, why would they register with the Proof House in Liege? They were not any more immune to sporadic sourcing of the mechanics in Liege than any one else in the world. It had not to be constant.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A. Saint Hubbert/Hubert Paris

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

So coming full circle and let's assume that V-C was registered with the proof facility in Liege from 1924 - 1929 and our sporting weapon of interest experienced proof in 1926(within 1924 - 1929) does this make it a bona fide Verney - Carron a Liege?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Right, Raimey. The purpose of a catalog, with which I think maybe even you would agree, is to SELL GUNS. So, if the 1934 V-C catalog said the company was located in St. Etienne when they were actually in Liege, that wouldn't be terribly helpful in selling guns, now would it? As for having a presence in Liege--all I can say is none listed in their 1922 catalog. As for the 1934 catalog, I have only a few pages, so they may well have been doing business elsewhere than the two French "depots" in Paris and Lyon, in addition to their factory in St. Etienne. But to suggest that they were "absorbed" by Cordy . . . based on what? An obviously bizarre translation from the French using the phrase "taken in"? Sorry, but for a guy like you, who refuses to accept barrel-making machines as evidence, when Ken tells you he's seen them in the V-C factory in St. Etienne . . . all you're showing so far is your Liege prejudice. It would also mean that the company was temporarily "absorbed" by Cordy in the late 20's, then "unabsorbed"--and back in business making guns, at the very same location in St. Etienne (same address 1922 and 1934), that they were before being "absorbed".

I think we're getting into shotgun fairytale land here.

Where did you find such a statement, Raimey? I was responding to YOUR statement that V-C was not a gunmaker. Matter of fact, if you read back through this rather long thread, you will find that I was the one who brought forth a statement from V-C, in their 1999 catalog, that the only sxs they were selling at that time were "made for them" in the European union. So if they had an operation in Belgium in the late 20's . . . sure, entirely possible. Wouldn't have been the first time, would it? But that does not mean that they were not also making shotguns in St. Etienne at the same time. And since the vast majority of V-C shotguns, both new and old, are marked V-C St. Etienne and carry St. Etienne proofs, you're going way out on a very thin limb with a claim that all their guns were made in Belgium and not St. Etienne. Or even all their barrels were made in Belgium (when they were clearly made from French steel, and so marked).

Nor does any of it mean that Cordy "absorbed" V-C. Entirely possible--1929 being an interesting date, don't you agree?--that as a result of the Great Depression, assuming V-C had its own gunmaking operation in Liege (rather than having someone else make guns for them and marking them V-C--which is what they were doing with sxs in the late 1990's) that V-C might have sold their Belgian operation to Cordy and "retrenched" to the home factory in St. Etienne. All sorts of possibilities here other than everything V-C coming from Belgium, or Cordy "absorbing" the entire V-C operation--which, interestingly enough, appears to have re-emerged in St. Etienne, just a few years later. Strange things do happen, but the Cordy "absorption" of V-C in its entirety does not seem to fit the available evidence.

Guys, JJ Perodeau has done a strip and clean of the action on this gun and he says that there are no marking on either the ejector iron or the locks. But he did says that the locks and springs were "nice" and that is about as much of a compliment that you ever get out of JJ. Know that I add very little to the discussion but told Raimey that I would have JJ check for any markings when I had it worked on.

Thanks Paul for the effort.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

1890 - 1891 Catalogue - Soci�t� Verney-Carron fr�res(Loire)






St. Etienne Boxlock with S.H & Cie
Has the toplever stop

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

From the late 1860s forward to the turn of the Century I cannot find one listing where Verney - Carron Freres received an award for tubes. But there were other Frenchman who did:

Bernard (L.), � Paris, rue Villejust 12, Canons d armes � feu

Javelle-Magand, � Saint �tienne(Loire) -Canons doubles pour fusils de chasse

Martel-Chaleyer � Saint �tienne(Loire) -Canons pour armes � feu

Massardier-Poulet � Saint Etienne(Loire)- Canons pour fusils de chasse

Ronchard-Siauve � Saint �tienne(Loire)- Canons pour armes � feu

Bernard(A.) � Paris, avenue de Lamothe Piquet, 16, Canons pour armes � feu

Clair fr�res, � Saint �tienne(Loire)- Canons de fusils

Verney Junior was in charge of the satellite shop in Lyon and later circa 1900 Charles Jeandet was listed as the successor.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse