doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney-Carron Helicobloc

Yeah, please do as the more the merrier. I've seen an ARMAF 16 bore boxlock with sideframe reinforcement 1943 proof on the 16 Gauge site.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The VC-Helicobloc gun is mine and was proofed in 1926 (code e) if that helps anyone with the gun. Raimey has been very helpful with providing some information on it. We believe it was (is a pigeon gun) as it weighs 7# 4ounces with 29 1/8" barrels.
Paul

It appears that there was an interesting relationship between France and Belgium when it comes to guns. Even though there was a very active gun industry in France, a number of French gun shops had guns made for them in Belgium. Some people think "French" if they see a French address and city on the barrels. The proofmarks often show the gun to be Belgian in origin. Seems especially true of guns sold by various Paris dealers.

1926 . . . that's only 4 years after it was stated in the V-C catalog that the marks "Helicobloc" and "Vercar" were the exclusive property of Verney-Carron.

Re the "Helice" system, for which "Helicobloc" was one of the trademarks, I received the following information in a 2002 letter from Claude Verney-Carron:

"Helice was the name of the locking system patented by my great-grandfather Jean Verney-Carron at the beginning of the twentieth century. When the patent expired and fell in the public field a lot of gun-makers from Saint-Etienne adopted the system for their own use. That's why you can find a lot of brands derived from the word Helice. Verney-Carron used the following ones: Helice Grip, Helice 33, Helistop, Helicobloc, Heliduplex."

That same 1922 V-C catalog carries one of the most interesting shotgun ads I've ever seen. There's a full page photo of Captain Rene Fonck, WWI's surviving ace of aces (75 kills) on which he's inscribed: "I am very pleased with your Verney-Carron Helice Grip shotgun. The birds fall like Krauts!" Underneath the photo, V-C refers to Fonck as a "famous hunter of men with his machinegun". That's even better than the Fausti sisters!

Forgot to mention the fact that there is no serial number on the Helicobloc--Vercar gun that is pictured above.
Paul

I find that quite unusual. There's no shortage of nameless Belgian and French guns out there, but I can't recall any I've seen without a SN. Almost makes me wonder whether some enterprising Belgian gunsmith fitted a set of barrels to an "orphan" Helice action.

Raimey - sorry the delay, I finally got around to the 1922 V-C catalog. Here are some pages discussing their Helice-Grip action. I don't have any patent information to share unfortunately. As for the top-lever stop, it appears to be standard equipment on all the guns in the 1922 catalog. I can email you these images if you want.

Well worth the wait. My French is pretty poor but does it note to beware of counterfeits and was 1914 the year of the design? It gives as 3 point means of ID?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

So, a lack of a serial number and not passing the V-C 3 point litmus test just may mean that it was a lunchbox Belgian V-C. But the mechanic would sure have to have had some great connections as the tube steel was upper rung and the copied system was relatively new.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Oops, I overlooked out two important pages. I think these get to your question, sorry for the omission:

Guys, since I can't read or speak French, what is the upshot of all this literature?
Paul