doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney-Carron Helicobloc

Another question I have: Are there actually 4 points of lock-up or 4 bites?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Two bites on the lumps, one on the barrel extension (operating on a cammed locking mechanism a la Webley Screw Grip) and a 4th smaller extension at the top of the rear lump that is secured at the bottom of the breech face.

A couple of pics I posted above show the 4 lockup points. I hsd noticed the stop before but can't explain its utility. I have been struggling with catalogs given my weak French, so I can't report anything on that front yet.

Raimey: Per V-C's 1922 catalog, they still retained exclusive ownership of both the Helicobloc and Vercar marks. Not sure when the patent on the Helice system ran out, but V-C successfully sued a couple other makers in 1914 for using it.

That Belgian gun, by the proofmarks, is 1924 or later. So possible the patent had expired by then. However, although I don't know for sure, I've never seen the "Vercar" mark on any guns other than those built by V-C. I wonder if they built the gun for a Belgian dealer who had it proofed in Liege.

Thanks Mr. Brown & I think it was reverse. V-C was sourcing the craftsmen in Liege for some of their wares.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Mr. Brown & I think it was reverse. V-C was sourcing the craftsmen in Liege for some of their wares. That's the only place they could have sourced the John Henry Andrew Toledo Steel Tubes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I'd be very skeptical about V-C guns built in Belgium. If the gun only has the toplever markings, no Verney-Carron anywhere else, then it wouldn't be "their" wares. And V-C specializes in barrels. Has for quite some time. Produces them for other makers. Can't imagine why they'd go to Belgium for barrels. Maybe licensed their Helice system to someone in Belgium, or made actions for someone in Belgium.

Still a mystery as far as I'm concerned.

What you think, that's what I want to hear. At this point I'm not surprised by any sourcing or cross sourcing. But if a V-C examples wears Jno. Hy. Andrew LTD. Toledo Steel, there's a high probability the tubes were sourced from Liege.


A. Chapus Sideplate w/
Jno. Hy. Andrew LTD Toledo Steel Works Sheffield

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=88839&page=2

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Mainwaring also sourced the mechanics in Liege - I wonder if Fernand Thonon was making tubes? Or was V. Halska & Cie. Fabts the culprit?


Mainwaring et Cie - 55 Av. Victor Emmanuel III, Paris


Stamps given as Belgian with
ANDREWS NICKEL TOLEDO STEEL WORKS.SHEFFIELD. N

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post229482
Other Mainwaring examples with Toledo Steel

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

V-C commissioned August Lebeau-Courally to make sporting weapons or moreover V-C sourced Liege for some of their wares:

''FAIT POUR VERNEY CARRON - LYON PAR AUG. LEBEAU COURALLY A LIEGE''

AUG. LEBEAU-COURALLY 9,3X74R BOXLOCK EJECTOR DOUBLE RIFLE, serial no. 43800

'AUG-LEBEAU. LIEGE. FAIT POUR. JEANDET A LYON''
Another interesting stamp

And another
A PAIR OF BELGIAN MADE 12-BORE SIDELOCK EJECTORS, serial no. 9390 / 1
''LEBEAU COURALLY ARMES DE GRAND LUXE LIEGE BELGIUM NO 9390 - 9391 MADE FOR HY. ANDREW AND CO LTD.'' w/ HY. ANDREW & CO. LTD on the underside. To me it seems that August Lebeau was real chummy with the Hy. Andrew & Co. Toledo Steel rep. in Liege.

I have not seen the marks but that is the way I interpret the given stamps. I could be mistaken.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

My ARMAF detachable lock gun, has John Henry Andrew marked barrels very similar to those above. I need to get some photographs of it and post them.