doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com WS Riley? WP Lester on the Lock Plates

Can anyone tell me who W.S. Riley was? He seems to have had several patents, many are on this one gun. Also, can someone tell me about the proof marks and barrel numbering. I know there was a discussion about some barrel marks like on this underrib at one time and am thinking it was related to the date of the barrel being manufactured. From what I remember, I think is was made in 1879. I think the proofs are Birmingham but really not sure. But, I may be way of base in both cases. Thanks, Bob

William Spinks Riley. Gun and rifle maker. At 34/35 Lench St, Birmingham from 1861-1867; then at Eagle Gun Works, Stafford St, Birmingham from 1868-1880; then at 40/41 Vauxhall St, Birmingham from 1881-1886. From 1878-1887 he had premises at 63 Bishopsgate St Within, London (from N Brown Vols I & II).

WS Riley gets mentioned in Crudginton & Baker Vols I & II for several patents, though not nos 615, 617 or 54.

Finally, putting a little more gloss on the fellow, this courtesy of IGC:

William Sparks Riley (b.1825 Birmingham) was recorded in the 1851 census as a gun finisher living at House 3, Back of 49 Brearley Street, Birmingham, with his sister, Sarah (b.1834), his brother, Frederick (b.1837 Birmingham) a pistol maker, and his cousin, Thomas Cole (b.1835 Leicester) an air gun maker.
William married in about 1852, and he opened his business in 1861 at 34 & 35 Lench Street, Birmingham, trading as a gun finisher and retail viewer. At the time, he was living at the Tower Tavern, 90 Lancaster Street with his wife, Mary Ann (b.1832 Worcester), and their children, Francis (son b. 1853), Ellen (b.1855), William (b.1858), Susannah (b.1860), and Susanna Allen (sister-in-law b.1841 Birmingham).

On 16 February 1866 he patented a transitional pinfire / centrefire drop-down barrel action with extractor and loading indicators (No. 491).

In 1868 he moved to Stafford Street to what he called the Eagle Gun Works. His trade mark was a spread eagle with the motto "Nothing Without Labour" in a banner.

In 1871 he was recorded as a gun maker living at 273 Bridge Street West with his wife, Mary Ann. His son, Francis had become a hat maker, and William was aged 13, was an errand boy possibly working for his father. Living with them were two more daughters, Mary A (b.1862) and Sarah J (b.1864).

In 1872 patent no. 1825 (possibly provisional and not registered) covered a drop-down barrel action and stocks.

In 1878 he opened a shop in London at 63 Bishopsgate Street Within.

In 1881 the firm moved to 40-41 Vauxhall Street, this was also named the Eagle Gun Works, but at this time William described his occupation as a gun finisher.

In 1887 the London shop closed and firm was no longer recorded in Birmingham. However, in 1891 William was recorded as a grocer at 45 Wheeler Street, living with his wife, Mary Ann, and Ellen, his grand-daughter.

Tim

boboreno,
The proof marks are Birmingham black powder prior to 1904.The gun is most likely chambered as a 10G. The 11 means that the barrel was bored as 11G and should measure between .751 and .763 diameter.

Thanks Tim, I couldn't find anything on the internet on Riley. Roy the gun is a 10 Gauge and thanks for confirming the proof marks.

Here are a couple more shots of the gun. Do you guys have anything on WP Lester? Again I don't find anything on the internet and don't have the books you have for reference. This gun appears and feels like a high quality made gun, the locks are very smooth and positive. Anything you can tell me about the gun is appreciated.

I can find no record of a gun maker or smith by the name of WP Lester in the UK. So he was in all likelihood a retailer, general stores or ironmonger of some description.

If there is an address or town on the ribs, it would be worth contacting the relevant library or county records office.

Tim

W P lester has a mention in Carder's SxS of the World but only as 'History Unknown' so was he perhaps an American retailer. Like trw999 I can find no record of Lester in my UK books.
The photos certainly show a high quality piece of the period and one pic shows a Riley patent firing pin - can not remember the patent # for that at the moment.

Interesting that you both feel that Lester may have been a retailer or at least not a maker. I kind of wondered if that was the case. Tim, it does not have a name on the rib, just says "London Laminated Steel". If Lester is not the maker it would be interesting to know who did and since the firing pin was mentioned heres a picture of the top. I find what I call loaded indicators interesting, the pin raises up with a shell in the chamber.