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#276756 04/30/12 04:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
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Sidelock

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Hi everyone,
found your forum while trying some research on 'Otto Bock' and decided that I have to join!

let me introduce myself:
Name is Gunter, retired, 30 years in England - not far from London; before that some years in the big apple and parts south of it; before that some years in Kenya (it helps if you work for airlines)
Hometown/country: Dusseldorf, Germany

Google directed me to the thread 'Info on Otto Bock Konige' from 2009

I bought a combination gun 'Otto Bock Berlin' some 18 months ago and got interested in finding out more about that 'gunmaker'
I contacted the 'Waffenmuseum Suhl' in Suhl, Germany - they confirmed that the action and barrels were made in Suhl but could give no further information as to which of the Suhl gunmakers actually made them.

My gun is an O/U (not a 'Drilling') 16b/7x57
and according to the date stamp 939 made in Sept. 1939!
So Otto Bock was still in existence at that date.

Unfortunately the 7x57 barrel was at some time drilled out and sleeved with a .22lr barrel cry
The shotgun barrel has a removable barrel insert ('Princess' Germany) in .222 Rem. which was fitted by a gunsmith and carries the gun's serial number.
So the gun can be used a a 16b/.22 or a .222/.22lr which in my book makes it a 'Fox Gun' and that is what I use it for.
Nevertheless, the gun was cheap enough and it still is a beautiful piece of gunsmithing.

I'll try to attach some photos here, but with my luck this might not work - we'll see
(doesn't work - pics are on my pc, not on a website......)

Best regards

Gunter
Life Member NRA (USA) since 1976

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,522
Likes: 167
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Welcome

If you use www.photobucket.com you will have ease in posting your pictures.
It is FREE smile
Again WELCOME.

Mike

Last edited by skeettx; 04/30/12 04:49 PM.

USAF RET 1971-95 [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Gunter #276761 04/30/12 05:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
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Sidelock

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
thanks to Mike for the welcome and tip re photobucket.

here goes: [img]http://s1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh614/gmtrans/[/img]

Does anyone know what the letter 'Z' near proofmarks indicates?

regards
Gunter

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180

Gunter #276763 04/30/12 05:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
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Sidelock

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Gunter #276767 04/30/12 05:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,522
Likes: 167
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Congratulations on posting some pictures
Takes some folks years or decades

FINE LOOKING GUN!!!

Mike

Last edited by skeettx; 04/30/12 05:47 PM.

USAF RET 1971-95 [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
the company of Otto Bock Berlin seems to be somewhat of a mystery - have been searching the net for some time now and apart from the info that he 'invented' the 9.3x62 cartridge in 1905 there is very little that I was able to find.
-apparently as a 'german' big game cartridge for the boys in the colonies - if I understand correctly as an equivalent to the 375 H&H Mag. (before WW1 there was 'Deutsch Süd-West', now Namibia, and Tanganyika, now Tanzania) - and of course he would have provided the rifles in that caliber, not a bad business plan!

If I remember correctly, the reason for the new cartridge was that the abundant Mauser actions of the time were too short for the longer cartridges like .375 and the 9.3's i.e. 72 or 74mm
therefore those calibers were only available in expensive double rifles (break action).
By shortening the cartridge to 62mm he could use the Mauser action and produce a relatively cheaper gun.

I found an address somewhere as:
Kronenstrasse 9, Berlin

google earth shows that address right in the centre of Berlin, near where the Imperial Palace ('Stadtschloss' I think) used to be (the East Germans blew it up (what was left of it after WW2) in the 50's or 60's.

Otto Bock was imho most likeley 'Hoflieferant' to Kaiser Wilhelm II

The action of this gun reminds me of a Merkel 213 which I used to own (20b/.243) so perhaps the action was made by Merkel?

Difficult to say, but perhaps someone on this forum might have some idea.

I noticed that you already have some german-speakers on this forum, but if I can ever be of help with a translation, I'd be happy to oblige.

regards
Gunter

Last edited by Gunter; 04/30/12 08:49 PM.
Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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The script L, or Z as you refer to as did I, is the stamp of one of the tube makers of the Boys Kelber, Louis or Wilhelm, post 1927, I believe. One will find it on the tubes of upper rung sporting weapons. Pretty high serial also so I would say a larger concern. Have you checked the sides of the lugs for a Merkel monogram or something similar? Are those Birmingham marks at the knuckle?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
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Sidelock

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Hi Raimey,
thanks for the info on the 'Z' or rather 'L' = Kelber.

There is absolutely nothing on the lugs.
The only mark which I had overlooked
(or thought it was part of the British reproof marks (my god, they need a bloody big gun to find space for all the marks they find it necessary to stamp on!)
is the one on the attached photos (the round one in the centre)
which is on the left side of the lower barrel just in front of the extractor.
(2 photos because I think one is clearer than the other but can't make up my mind which one)

Looks like it could be 2 marks, one overlaid on the other?
Could that be an anchor?
Confused!

re marks on knuckle: yes, BNP - Birmingham - Nitro Proof


thanks and regards
Gunter






Last edited by Gunter; 05/01/12 07:23 AM.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
Gunter Offline OP
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Sidelock

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 180
does someone have information on this mark? (the round one in the centre of pic with fig. 9(?) )

I have no idea whether this is part of the English reproof marks
or an original german one - and if so, what it is.

thanks
Gunter
Life member NRA 1976


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