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If that's true (I don't think so) then why would continuing to pound them with facts help our cause. Wouldn't we likely be more effective to appeal to then in a way they can accept, understand and ultimately agree with?

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Because that would require kidnapping their entire Propaganda network...and replacing them with thinking people so a new docterine can be diseminated to the useful idiots.

Something thats not likely to happen.

I believe there's sound reasoning here, and it fits well with King's 'take the help where you can get it' advise. I'd hope the effort takes on a 365 day a year, forever schedule and not just ramp up to respond to the lefts schedule. I'd like to see 20 second rap utube videos depicting black and latino gang actors handling ban list firearms with the hammer repeat message 'our guy's alright, but DON'T let him take our guns'.

My prediction, and there have been a few strategic public 'compromise' concessions, the list gets paired down some and the magazine issue withers. But, cooler heads prevail and we get universal back ground check and likely stiffer regs on ammo and components in the name of mental health precautions. Not a person in America will be safer, but they'll tap a vast new source of legal compliant citizens for fees and taxes.

IMO, the way to counter an emotional argument is with a stronger emotional argument. If I were a pro-gun billionaire (think Bloomberg/Soros money) I'd fund an advertising campaign featuring citizens who have successfully used a firearm to defend themselves, their families or innocent third parties. Have them tell their stories on camera and in print ("I'm alive today because I own a gun...", better yet "My children are alive today because I own a gun...") Preferably women telling how they stopped a rapist or killer because they were legally armed.

Flood youTube, Facebook et al with the ads if TV and magazines refuse to accept them. Having LaPierre say "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" rings hollow for most non-gun owners. Hearing it from hundreds of ordinary people might not.

Bone,
There are "dyed in the wool"Anti-gunners, and then there are those that believe the hype they are bombarded with,not knowing any better. The real "Antis" are lost to us,but we have to try to reach the others.They don't know that the felons(and others)can't be required to register their guns,under the law.They think we are saying they just won't,we need to make sure they know the facts and many will come over.The problem is, he have to do it locally,through respectful letters to our representives and "Editors";we sure won't get any help from the National Media.
Mike

Letters are part of it, Der Ami. "Education," however, must advance on the broadest possible front. Those of us who work at it every day---"it" being changing opinion and providing greater influence with power structures---have a few rules.

One is to keep the dark side close to your chest, to sup and drink with them and be respectful of their notions of protecting their interests however you feel about them. Persuasion not punching in the teeth. There are more of them than us. Use their strengths to overcome, like black belts.

Second, adjust when your strategy is not working. My organization just turned around public participation in a province-wide program from 23 to 90 per cent without a letter, ad or radio spot. Our opponents were a powerful industry and government. Big guys don't have the franchise on brains.

Canada's great Marshall McLuhan hypothesized decades ago that the medium is the message and that we now live in a global village. NRA's good-bad-man with a gun resonates with our hairy-chested but to others it's too much of frontier vigilante justice. Please don't shoot the messenger; I'd ditch it.

This is a a roundabout way of cautioning against pigeon-holing anyone, as some would to our member Homeless Joe. There's a long twisty road to protecting our shooting sports. There's no unanimity in anything. Use care not to push others into corners, forcing them to fight. Better to have them talking to us during the looming struggles ahead.

Canvasback, you are correct that we have been doing the same thing over and over, and we find ourselves fighting the same battles. But just because we are once again under assault does not mean we are losing the battle. On the contrary, we have more guns and more gun owners in the U.S. than we ever have, and at the same time, the total amount of gun violence has fallen dramatically. We do need to advance that message more effectively. Der Ami's last post gets a resounding +1.

What we are continuing to do, which is not working, is failing to utilize our numbers and our great strength. This is a theme I have been repeating ever since the current attack began. Actually, I lamented that we did not utilize our great numbers when Obama was first running for president. If more of us understood the threat and stuck together, we could have cut the head off the serpent before it had a chance to bite us. We are not a minority. Despite what you hear in the so-called unbiased polls right now, a majority of Americans have consistantly been in favor of an individual RKBA and the 2nd Amendment. MSNBC might tell us that a majority of gun owners, and even NRA members, are in favor of the Obama/Biden plan, but that's not what we see and hear among our friends or as we're standing in long lines at gun shows and shops.

So, to summarize, the biggest problem gun owners have is themselves. We have the numbers to convince lawmakers to vote our way. We still fail to utilize those vast numbers. 4.5 million NRA members are carrying the mail for over 40 million gun owners who still find convenient excuses to not join even when the wolf is at the door. There has been a tendancy among gun owners to finally band together after it's too late... and not just here, but in other countries. There lies the key to our success... not in sleeping with the enemy, making concessions, or falling prey to lulling.

It does not take a super majority to wield influence. Blacks sticking together made great strides in Civil Rights during the 1960's despite the fact that they were less than 20% of the population. Jews have tremendous influence on the politics and policies of the world and they number less than 14 million out of the world's population of 7 billion. There's a powerful lesson in what can be done when small minorities stick together and fight as a team.

I have placed parts of King Brown's previous post above to once again show what I absolutely disagree with. He still is here advising us to sleep with the enemy. The devout anti-gunners will never change no matter how often you "sup and drink with them". They loathe guns and are disgusted by gunowners. Period. He is wrong when he says there are more of them than us. Dead wrong. It is not worth the time and energy to try to batter down Hoover Dam with your head. You don't beat liars by compromising your own principles as has been suggested in the past. Far better to utilize your numbers and remind your representatives what happened to Democrats in the mid term elections after the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban was passed. Far better to win with the truth.

King also once again advises us to ditch the NRA's message in spite of the fact that it has been very successful, especially in the last decade, and has hardly been shown to be a failure now. King is no help to us and I wish he'd just stay out of our battle. Since he claims that his tactics are so very successful, I wish he'd demonstrate by getting Quebec to follow the law and destroy the records of the Canadian Long Gun Registry. If he could do that, he might have some credibility. As long as Quebec has them, you might as well say the Registry still potentially exists for all Canadians. He's still pretending to ignore me ever since he falsely accused me of putting words in his mouth several weeks ago when I was clearly stating my own opinion. He can never admit when he's wrong so he chose the Gnomoron path of covering his eyes and hoping the bad thing goes away. It won't.

I didn't pigeon hole Homeless jOe, although it's pretty obvious that's what King is suggesting. He essentially told us where he stands on Universal Registration. We expended a lot of time trying to show him where his reasoning was wrong. I think we all presented a pretty airtight case, but he still didn't wish to budge. OK. I specifically said, I for one, would not categorize him with nca225 or our other anti-gun trolls. I just couldn't see wasting any more time when our energies could be expended more wisely. I will welcome him back to the team when he sees he has been hornswoggled by Liberal anti-gunners. I certainly haven't backed him into any corners or forced him to fight, and only hoped that he would change his position before he has lost a little more of his Civil Rights and Constitutional freedom... not after.

Credit where credit is due... I actually found myself in agreement with some of what King said earlier in this thread. I held my breath and hoped his position was morphing to something more sensible than sleeping with the enemy and negotiating with liars. Not shooting any messengers... just asking one to stop doing damage. I don't expect that request will be honored.

Anyway James, always good to hear from you and OldStarfire. Nice to know there are a couple voices of reason coming from Canada.

We all have to use the media we have access to, and for most of us that is letters and "face to face". Most, if not all, of us agree that background checks must include mentally ill people.This means changes to "Hepa(?)" and privacy laws;gun laws already prohibit them.Just because we agree with this part doesn't mean we agree with their ideas on "expanded background checks", which really are registration by another name.
Mike

Keith as usual you're twisting what I said....I said I'm for back ground checks on private gun sales.

Nothing more nothing less.



I'd as soon stand with the devil himself as stand with Obama....I stand on having some common sense.

I don't give a tinker's damn how many backround checks you do on private sales they aint gonna do diddly squat to prevent another massacre because a felon is going to get his guns on the blackmarket or steal them. Period! Damnit jOe we aren't going to give your soul to the libtards and sewer rats. Now go back and re-read the gospel according to Jim and Keith.