doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belgian maker ID question.

Dear experts on Belgian maker and proof marks, is it possible to find out which Belgian firm made the pictured shotgun? It was retailed by the Russian "Vassily Petrov Manufacture", pre-1914 and the top rib is marked accordingly, want to know where Petrov outsourced his guns. Sorry about the pics, I don't own the gun and have to use whatever pics the owner managed to take. A pic or two of the whole gun are supplied to satisfy probable curiosity. Thank you in advance.

I see a JC on the barrels. If this is the makers mark, then it was made by Joseph Cap
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20c/a%20cap%20joseph%20gb.htm

The gun was made prior to 1924
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Pete

Must be the KGB filter to screen out former CIA officers. Can't access the photos.

Now I can't see the pics either.
Let me try again...

HD, how does it read in Russian and English on the buttplate?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Pre-1917 spelling, says "Weapons by Vassili Petrov, Izhevsk, Vyatka Province". This board doesn't know Cyrillic letters, so won't even attempt to reproduce that Vassili Petrov was a big time 'manufacturer' of sporting guns in Izhevsk (home of the present producer of Baikal branded weapons). Not to be confused with the Royal arsenal operating in the same town. Petrov made muzzleloading rifles and shotguns, converted surplus Krnka and Berdan rifles, and sold breechloaders made for him in Belgium and Germany. Later he bought the license to make the Iver-Johnson single shot. His operations were halted by the first world war, and the bolshevik revolution afterwards. In the civil war that followed the revolution Izhevsk was repeatedly leveled with the ground, and no records survive. Afterwards, the soviet government shifted through the debris and resumed some of Petrov's operations, namely the production of Iver-johnson, but that's another story.

HD, did he have a similar business as this R.R. Roggen(?) Moscow which looks similar to an ALFA catalgoue?



You are most correct on the Cyrillic display.

Wouldn't mind hearing the Iver-Johnson story at some point.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I don't think so. Roggen (also unsure of the spelling) was just a big gun shop in Moscow. There were numerous such operations before 1917. One of them, run by a chap called Tarnovsky, was a representative of W.W. Greener's, and Tarnovsky translated "The Gun..." into Russian and published it, as well as a gun book of his own design, which was sort of a Greener retold. He did a pretty poor job of a translation, by the way. Most Moscow shops were selling to the middle class. St Petersburg had a number of high-end shops, like Lardere and Chizhov, who had guns built for them in the white by top Belgian makers, and sold them in their names. Check out this Chizhov-branded Liege sidelock:

Petrov's was different from all of those in that he did have his own production unit in Izhevsk, albeit it didn't seem to be capable of turning out double breech-loaders. Besides, his weapons were aimed at the mass market. Here's a curio bearing the name of Michail Petrov, presumably the son of Vassili, who of all things represented his father at a Paris exhibition. One can only speculate whether this 16 bore Berdan conversion finished in Scythian style was one of the exhibition guns.


The stock could be even not original. The only thing that is known about this gun is that it exists.

As for the Iver-Johnson story, it is indeed interesting. I am working on an article on that, hoping to sell it to some US magazine. But I'm not through the research stage yet, there are some sources I have to consult before making some of the claims, so it has to wait a little.

Bsck to the original question, what does the V next to the other end of the extractor pusher stand for? I thought that could be the maker's mark, probably not, but what?

Also, are the barrels what's called "three-iron" Damascus? Was a medium grade barrel material, not the cheapest but not too fancy either, no?