doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com anyone here load for the .450 BPE?

I am making a .450 BPE single shot and am currently trying to figure out what twist to get in my barrel blank. It is a modern action, so it iwll handle full nitro loads, but I want to shoot paper patched lead bullets. Any input would eb appreciated.

Thanks!

I will turn the question around a bit. Express bullets are light bullets for a higher initial velocity with black powder. That may not necessarily be what you are interested in with nitro powders and so forth. The question then becomes what bullet length do you want to shoot out of the gun?
The Greenhill formula of 150 diameters squared divided by length equals the twist required to stabilize it (working in inches). Normally the twist rate would be made 1" faster than the formula recommends.

cheers Doug

Marc,
I have a number of bullet stability/rifling twist estimators and if you would like I would be glad to help you out. As suggested by Doug, you can start with the bullet you want to use, and then work back to the twist rate.

I too shoot paper patched bullets. My .45-100 wouldn't have it any other way.

Brent

I am going to be shooting paper patched bullets in the 280-365 gr range. Probably 335-365 90% of the time. Well, truth be told I will likely find a load that I like and stick with it for many years.

Krieger offers 14, 18, and 29 twists - I am leaning towards ordering the 20.

Marc,
I'm stuck in O'Hare. If I ever get out of here and back home sometime next week, I can work out the details, but a 365 gr bullet is darn short, and a 20 will be more than enough by a pretty good margin. An 18" twist will stabilize a 550 gr 1.45" bullet at slower velocities for a long ways (like 1000 yds). The 20 will do the trik in a pinch.

I'll work out the details early next week if you wish, but 20 will be fast enough. A better question is if it is TOO fast. I do not know what normal twists were for the old 450 bpe with these sorts of bullets. I'm guessing upper 20s.

Brent

I am guessing that 1:20 is a typo for 1:29 If so that should do for up to about 350 grains bullets. I measured a couple of .457 cast bullets; 310 grains is roughly .8" long implying that 350 grains would be about .9" long. A 450 grains bullet was 1.25" long
That translates into twists of 1:36 and 1:32 for the light bullets allowing 1" faster twist than the formula. The heavy bullet would require 1:23 again increasing twist by 1" from the formula.

cheers Doug

I wound up ordering the 20" twist from Krieger. That is what I had in mind when I called, but before saying anything I asked the guy on the phone what he would reccomend for 280-365 gr cast bullets and he said "20" without hessitation.

Thanks for the input

Marc,

I shoot an Alex Henry, and have an original AH mold with inserts for solid point or hollow point, so here goes,

325 gr. hollow point, paper patched, soft lead, 48 gr of IMR 4198 topped by 12 gr. Dacron. The correct BP load is 4 1/2 drams of FG or FFG.

370 gr. Flat Point Solid (same bullet w/o the hollow point) will shoot fine with the above load or can be pushed to 50 gr. of IMR 4198.

Neither bullets are crimped for single shot use as it's not required and would only tear the paper patch and cause leading.

We could meet at the Guild Show next year to discuss this further as several members will be working up the same 450 BP loads or for 450/400 's for the 2008 Guild single shot caribou hunt I announced this year. Maybe you should join up with us.

~Barry~

THanks for the info Arctic. Sorry I am just now responding-I have not looked on this forum in a couple of weeks.

Is your Henry a single shot? Is it a hammer or hammerless action?

Do you know of anyone making a mould that matches the original Henry mould?

I will actually be using this as one of my"metal guns" for my application to be accepted as a Regular Memeber next January. Would love to meet up with you while at the Show.

Arctic-

PM sent. If you did not get it, please email me at mstokeld@hotmail.com

Thanks!

Marc

Mar,

PM's don't appear to working since the switch so I sent an email.

Just finished cleaning a chamber up on an AH last night, so should be shooting it quickly.

~Arctic~

Can someone please post the demensions for the 450 BPE? Rim, head, neck, and length. Thanks

Hello, Mike:
Thera are a lot of different 450 BPE. yours looks like the 3 1/4". The dimensions are the same as the 450 NE of the same length. You can find the exact dimensions in http://www.municion.org, along with photos of the cartridges.
Antonio Molins, Madrid.

Thanks herrdoktor. Unfortunately I don't read Spanish. I also don't see any measurements such as diameter of rim, base and neck.

I also don't speak Spanish, but I found it. All dimentions are in mm.

From Cartridges of the World, 1969

Bullet diameter .458
Neck diameter .485
Shoulder diameter .530
Base diameter .577
Rim diameter .660
Case length 2.75
Cartridge length 3.25
Berdan primer .251
Knyoch primer 31A

Black powder load
310 grain cast lead
120 grain FFG
mv 1800 100yds 1510
me 2240 100yds 1570

Nitro Load
365 grain Copper Tube
52 grains Cordite
mv 2100 100yds 1809
me 3578 100yds 2655

Pete

I know this thread has been inactive for a while, but thought I'd add my two cents on http://www.municion.org. If, instead of clicking on the link, you instead Google "municion", the site pops up in the list looking like this:

MUNICION.ORG- [ Translate this page ] Coleccionismo de cartuchería, identificación, bases de datos y foros.
http://www.municion.org/ - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

Just click on [Translate this page] and Google does just that.

Or you can find the measurements of about anything ever made here.
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/riflelist2.htm