doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com LC Smith

The �LLH� of Laurent Lochet-Habran has been found on Smith and Hunter Arms Fulton and "Ranger" for Sears, Lefever, Fox, Cresent, and Ithaca Flues, NID and Lefever Nitro Special, and Westernfield Deluxe/Western Arms Long Range guns. Baker guns may be marked "Nitro Rolled Steel" and Folsom Crescent guns "Fluid Temper Steel." LLH 'rough forged tube' marked barrels have been found on Smith guns manufactured from 1914 to 1948.

Alot more here
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17ixogftgITEblNUWtmFBv96ZvgjK6eFell8GsAWd-KI

Can anyone shed some light on this, I am looking at a Marlin L C Smith, 68 - 71, field grade, it is my understanding that all of these field grades where 28" barrels, 12 ga, with Mod and Full fixed chokes. my question is I am looking at on now that the seller claims has a 3" chamber. I cannot find any reference to these guns made by Marlin between 68 & 71 that have 3" chambers, there are also no makings on the gun that I can find to reference 3" chambers. Did some of these guns come with 3" chambers?? If in fact this gun does have 3" chambers would it be an after market modification??

The Original catalog for the 1968-1972 Marlin re-introduced L.C. Smith side by sides, says all were 2 3/4 inch chambers....

Exact factory printed information as follows:

Offered in Field Grade $325.00 and DeLuxe $400.00 Models...

12 Gauge 2 3/4" Regular or Magnum shells....

Right Modified, Left Full choke....

LOP 14"... 1 1/2 drop at comb...2 1/2 Drop at Heel...

28" barrels with Simmons floating ventilated steel rib with front and middle bead sights....

Weight about 6 3/4 lbs.

Also noted under other details are the facts that include Marlin used cyanide case colors on these guns instead of the original bone and charcoal case colors, the raised rib was in fact an aluminum rib and 'glued' in place...the trigger plate is stamped THE MARLIN FIREARMS COMPANY INC.

2,539 Field Grade guns were built between 1968 and 1972, 188 Deluxe guns were built during the same time period and roll stamped Deluxe on the water table.....Serial numbers all preceded by FWM (Feather Weight Marlin).....

There is no mention of any 3" chambers on these guns, so most likely the gun you're looking at was "owner altered"....

Hope this helps...

I would be Verrrrry Warrry of this-- The re-intro Smith under the Marlin Aegis 1968-1972 was never built to handle heavy loads, whether 2 & 3/4" or 3"-- I have two 12 gauge Smiths with 3" chambers- a Older 3E re-barreled at Fulton in 1928 with 32" Nitro Steel barrels, factory rib and F&F chokes- has thew reinforcing yoke behind the barrel hanger loop too- and a 1929 Ideal Longrange 30" F&F ejector gun- also with the yoke and stamped Longrange on the bottom of the barrel lug- neither are marked 3"- but as Buck Hamlin checked them out for me, if he says his chamber gauge goes to 3", I believe it- Both have had the stock heads glas-bedded by him, and I never shoot 3" loads in either one--Sounds like the seller is like some of the clowns who, regarding Smiths they are trying to hustle: (1) Don't know ejectors from extractors (2) Don't know a R frame from a FW frame ad infinitum--The later Marlin Smiths came out as a basic DT extractor gun, and you could buy a Japanese Win 101 with single selective trigger and ejectors for the same money- later the Browing Clitori series and also the Daly Japanese doubles-- wrong marketing move- just as the current Italian boxlocks with dummy sidelock plates are no more a real Hunter Arms LC Smith than Chef Boy-Ar-Dee is Benito Mussolini--

William, unless this gun was special ordered from Marlin for 3" chambers, then it would have a stamp on the barrels water table. Ir would then have the standard 2 3/4" chambers, and I have seen some that have the 2 3/4" chambers on the same flat as the serial number. If it was opened by someone, I would still not shoot 3" loads from it. The guns at this time from Marlin were proofed at higher than nitro loads available at the time, and would be safe with the heavier loads offered THEN. This would not apply to today's modern Magnum 2 3/4" loads.

RWTF, If your Longrange is not stamped 3", then it is 2 3/4", unless someone opened it up. Not all Longrange or Wildfowl guns were 3" chambers.
My Longrange 3" chambered gun, the chamber gage goes to 2 15/16", and my gages are built from Hunter Arms Co. prints.

Thanks to all, I have put this one in my rear view mirror and moved on.

I am going to look at a new Browning citori, waterfowl tomorrow.

thanks again for the input.

It has not been mentioned that all the Marlin built LC Smith guns were on the FW frame, while all the 3" guns were on the regular frame. As far as proof pressures, that should not be a consideration, as the proof pressures for the 2 3/4" and the 3" are the same.

Instead of speculating, why not just measure the chambers? Doesn't matter much what the seller "claims," because a lot of sellers don't know their ass from their elbow.

Price? My 1970 Digest says; the Elsie $225; Winchester 101 $310.

The 1970 Digest also has a full length article on the 1968-72 Smith.

It is distinguished by being the only, at that time, hand fitted double to rise out of the ashes.

The muzzles are flared 1/2" back to the maximum choke constriction; sort of like a 21 skeet I guess. The article says it patterned normal with regular loads, but when they went to turkey a wildfowl loads with larger shot the barrels did a switch on pattern. At 40 yds the right barrel averaged 82% and the left 76%.
They believe it had to do with the way the forcing cones were configured. The left forcing cone is 1 1/8" long. The right is 7/8". I wonder if they mistakenly listed the right for the left concerning the cones. Bores were both .731. Left muzzle .692; right .708. Chambers 2 3/4", with chamber wall thickness averaging .182 and .151 at 3". IMO, with those measurements, opening to 3" wouldn't comprise integrity.

He said the hard sears have 7/32" width of bearing surface and should prevent doubling. They also said the sinking in of the lockplates causing friction of sears was the other cause of doubling in older Smiths, although I've never had a Smith double. It says a flatheaded jackscrew was sunk into the stockwood under each sideplate and adjusted so the sears cannot touch.

He does mention firing magnum loads Super X Mark 5 Mag. and went on to say it is the only gun he ever saw, single or double, that will put the whole load of buck shot where desired.

All in all, doesn't sound like a bad gun to me.

I'll bet you are right-but as i only shoot 2 & 3/4" shells in the aforementioned two 12 Smiths- and only RST 2.5" shells in my Specialty FWE circa 1933- Machts Nicht! If you want to shoot 3" shells, and I do for late season Winter pass shooting Canadas, then I use either one of two Model 12 heavy Duck guns, or my camo-ed- POS Mossy-Burgher 835 Utility-Mag- But NOT 3.5",I shoot one of those babies ONCE in the Mossy-Burgher 835- and I added some lead weight to the fiberglas hollowed butt-stock too (just as my M12 3" Mags have added lead weight in their butts as well) and I didn't much care for the recoil or the added muzzle plats through the portholes near the muzzle--