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#30249 03/10/07 04:16 PM
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gbrown Offline OP
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Hello,

I am doing some research for a freind on a old Sterlingworth sxs shotgun. Serial: 352211 Can anyone point me in the right direction for serial numbers and years made. Perhaps even some prices?


Thanks

Jerry

gbrown #30251 03/10/07 04:18 PM
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Years of manufacture by serial number, "Other Useful Information" on this site. Prices being asked, gunsamerica.com.

eightbore #30268 03/10/07 05:47 PM
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Should be a 16g made about about 1914.
Here are the GunsAmerica Sterlys and there are a bunch
http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.htm?OG...amp;MX=0&F=
16g 'shooters' have gotten very popular, and the pre-1929 Philly guns more so than later Savage models.

Last edited by revdocdrew; 03/10/07 05:50 PM.
Drew Hause #30295 03/10/07 09:09 PM
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My canned Sterlingworth response is getting longer and longer -- When Ansley H. Fox, was forced to add a lower priced gun to his line of graded Ansley H. Fox guns, in 1910, he didn't want to detract from the A.H. Fox Gun Co. name, so they dummied up "The Sterlingworth Company." The first year’s guns, beginning with serial number 50,000, were marked as being "Made By The Sterlingworth Company, Philadelphia, U.S.A." Actually the first few hundred were marked "Wayne Junction" instead of Philadelphia. They even produced a separate The Sterlingworth Gun Co. catalogue for 1910. These guns were built under the same patents as the graded Ansley H. Fox guns. The main moneysaving features were an American Black Walnut (Juglans nigra) stock as opposed to the more costly European thin shell walnut (Juglans regia) stocks on the graded guns, and the "Sterlingworth Fluid Steel" barrels instead of Krupp Fluid Steel barrels. Workmanship on these early Sterlingworths was generally excellent, better than graded guns from the 1920's and 30's. The early "The Sterlingworth Company" guns had a rounded front for the side panel of the frames. According to my list of observed specimens that was changed to the same pointed profile as the graded guns by #51,301.

In 1911 this field grade gun was added to the A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogue as the Model 1911. "Model 1911" is stamped in the forearm iron. (A very few graded guns made about this time are stamped Model 1910) The lowest Model 1911 serial number I've recorded is #53,140. All of these early Sterlingworths had a recessed hinge-pin head like Parkers, or Ansley's earlier guns made in Baltimore and the Philadelphia Arms Company A.H. Fox gun. The highest "pin gun" Sterlingworth serial number I've recorded is # 62,244. After that Sterlingworth hinge-pins are dressed smooth like the graded guns. When the small-bores (16- and 20-gauge) were added to the Ansley H. Fox line they were briefly referred to in some flyers as the Model 1912, but I've never seen one so stamped. Graded 20-gauge guns have serial numbers beginning with 200,000 and 20-gauge Sterlingworths 250,000. Graded 16-gauge guns have serial numbers beginning with 300,000 and 16-gauge Sterlingworths 350,000.

Most of the Philadelphia produced S-worths had the word "Sterlingworth" roll stamped on each side of the frame. After production moved to Utica, Savage started using a "Fox-Sterlingworth" roll stamp.

When the Sterlingworth came out in 1910 it had a price of $25. That climbed to $55 by 1919. A.H. Fox Gun Co. reduced the price to $48 in 1922 and again to $36.50 in 1926. Workmanship of course declined. Savage kept the $36.50 price until June 1932 when they upped it to $39.50. On February 10, 1936, they upped the price again to $42.85 (the digits 2 and 8 are transposed in McIntosh's book). On February 1, 1938, Savage tried a price cut and dropped it to $35. February 1, 1939, they upped the price to $44.75. January 2, 1940, up again to $48.50. January 2, 1941, up to $52.65 and June 16 up again to $56.50. January 2, 1942, up again to $64.95.

For $35 Graded or $30 Sterlingworth (last prices I've seen quoted) you can get a factory letter on most any Ansley H Fox shotgun (Philadelphia or Utica) from Mr. John T. Callahan, 53 Old Quarry Road, Westfield, MA 01085. The information exists on the factory work-order cards, probably 85+% of which still exist. Send him the complete serial number and a check, and he can do the rest. That would tell you the specifications of the gun when it left the factory.

There were more 12-gauge Sterlingworths made than any other Fox double (some 110,000), so unless in exceptionally high condition or with features such as automatic ejectors or factory original 26-inch barrels, they are about a $800 gun. It is impossible to truly evaluate a gun with out having it in hand, but average 12-gauge Sterlingworths are about $800 guns.

To Phily or Utica, That Is The Question – As with all American doubles earlier the Ansley H. Fox gun the better the workmanship, and quality of wood grade for grade. I have seen some pretty lame very late Utica Fox-Sterlingworths. I haven’t observed that much of a decline in the quality of the graded Ansley H. Fox guns built by Savage. They seem to remain pretty much the same as the late 1920s Philadelphia built guns, except for the uglier profile of some of the top-levers, and the bulkier forearm wood, which some like and some don’t.

The older guns often have more drop at heel than most people like today. The standard drop-at-heel for Philadelphia vintage Sterlingworths was 3-inches for 26-inch (Brush) and 28-inch (Field) barreled guns, and 2 3/4 - inch for 30-inch (Standard) and 32-inch (Trap). Names in () how factory referred to various barrel length Sterlingworths. Stock dimensions were to order on graded guns so anything is possible. I have a 1914 A-grade 12-gauge straight-grip that came from the factory with 2 1/4 inch drop-at-heel. A friend has an AE-grade 20-gauge with 3 1/2 - inch drop-at-heel! All the Savage vintage catalogues list 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel as standard for all barrel length Sterlingworths. Later guns also tend to have their barrels a little less finely struck and hence weigh a bit more. While the Sterlingworth was always stocked with American Black Walnut (Juglans nigra), pre WW-I graded guns were all stocked in European Walnut (Juglans regia). After WW-I only XE-grade and above were listed in the catalogues with Juglans regia, and by the last Savage catalogue all mention of European Walnut had disappeared.

The change-over was gradual and occurs in 12-gauge guns through serial numbers in the high 12x,xxx range. The earliest Utica marked 12-gauge S-worth I've recorded is 128,419. These early Utica guns are just like late Phily guns with the sleek toplever, slim forearm and capped pistol grip with the flat-topped diamonds for checkering. The barrel markings are in lettering at least twice as large as the Philly S-worths and is something like -- Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel -- Made for Savage Arms Corp., Utica, NY by A.H. Fox -- . I don't have one in front of me so don't hold my feet to the fire on the exact wording. The ugly Savage top lever, the bulky forearm, the coarse pointed checkering, the Special Alloy Forged Steel barrels and the capless pistol grip stocks seem to begin appearing in the 132,xxx range in 12-gauge S-worths. The capless pistol grip is first pictured in the 1937 catalogue. By the 138,xxx range, capped pistol grips begin appearing randomly again!?!

Also you have to remember, that the workers were grabbing parts out of bins and assembling guns. I have a Fox-Sterlingworth Ejector Brush in the 160,xxx range and it has barrels marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel, the sleek Philly top lever and safety slide, the bulky forearm and the capped pistol grip stock with the coarse pointed checkering.

In 16-gauge S-worths the change seems to begin appearing in the 367,4xx range, but barrels seem to be still marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed steel into the low 370,xxx range. The change over in 20-gauge Sterlingworths seems to be spread out from the low 259,xxx to the high 262,xxx range.

So, the competing factors are... Early gun - better workmanship and wood quality, but short chambers and likely poorer stock dimensions. Later gun - better stock dimensions and modern chamber lengths, but poorer workmanship and lower quality wood.

The term "Deluxe" was never used in reference to Sterlingworth guns of the Philadelphia period, just Sterlingworth or Sterlingworth Ejector, brush (26"), field (28"), standard (30") or trap (32"). Beginning in 1930 Savage used the term Fox-Sterlingworth-Deluxe or Fox-Sterlingworth-Deluxe-Ejector to indicate a gun equipped with a recoil pad and twin ivory sights. These of course were options available on the Sterlingworth from the beginning, but the term Deluxe was purely Savage period term. Also the Deluxe was only cataloged for 28- or 30-inch barrels in 12-gauge and 28-inch barrels in 16- or 20-gauge. The extra cost for a Deluxe was $3, while buying the individual options of a recoil pad was $5 and the twin ivory sights were $1.50 in 1931. By 1940 Deluxe was still $3 extra but the individual options had dropped in price through the years to $3.50 and $1.10.

As to weights, it seems from my experience, you can find guns that fall outside the catalogued weights from most all periods. A 12-gauge 30-inch Sterlingworth was catalogued at 7 1/2 to 7 3/4 pounds in Philly period catalogues and 7 1/4 to 7 3/4 pounds in the Savage period catalogues. I have a Philly gun at 7 pounds 3.2 ounces and a Utica gun at 7 pounds 0.8 ounces, both original butt plates to muzzles.

You really need to evaluate each gun on its own merits, how it fits you, and meets your needs.


FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the recently published book "The Parker Story" the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in "The American Rifleman" (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A recent issue of The Double Gun Journal carried an article on tests showing no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

Researcher #30305 03/10/07 10:40 PM
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The 12 may be an $800 gun but I have a Phily 16 with extractors but in near mint condition with 32" barrels for which I have turned down $2800 from a member of this board. Maybe more than it is worth but it is the only Fox I have and the cash would soon be gone. Might be willing to trade if for a straight grip 20 if the stock was long enough.

Tyler #30355 03/11/07 01:24 PM
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A minty 32-inch 16-gauge Sterlingworth! $2800 would be on the bargain side of that equation!! I've recorded 32-inch 12-gauges, and one 32-inch 20-gauge, but I've yet to add a 32-inch 16-gauge Sterlingworth to my table of observed specimens.

Researcher #30422 03/11/07 10:37 PM
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Tyler, check PM's


Dogs On Point!!! - doublenut

doublenut #30429 03/11/07 11:57 PM
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Just look a Cabela's gunroom, a hand full of Foxes,(like always) but lots of LCs, Ithicas and Parkers.
Somethings afoot!
Same with other dealer's sites.
Philly Foxes, Sterlingworth, or graded are getting far and few.


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