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13 members (FelixD, Borderbill, 6 invisible),
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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 47 |
Dodging lions and wasting time.....
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 284
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 284 |
Sellers would call it something over $20K. Buyers are stingy these days. I'd expect to settle for about $15,000. if I wanted to move it fairly quickly. Thats my wild guess.
h
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803 |
This is not a factory Grand American or 21-6/inlay so value is determined when money changes hands. Original Winchester Grand American's have become very pricey. I know nothing about the engraver. As you can see, it didn't sell. these non factory upgrades are hard to sell and if the original owner, you never get your money out of them except for possibly Churchill engraving.
So it all depends on what you think as to the quality of the work if you want to acquire and shoot. As an investment, it's not.
I wouldn't purchase until I had it in my hands and probably would not purchase at all but that's just me.-Dick
BTW, there are two SN's listed, 817 and 22241, I don't know what the 817 number is, maybe a match number for the set but it's not a Winchester number, the 22241 is a more reasonable number. At this price point you may as well have a Cody letter to determine how the gun started out in life. 32" Model 21's are nice though, I have had two, a Duck and a Live Pigeon gun.
Last edited by Dick_dup1; 11/18/12 11:51 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
As a shooter that would be perfect. Plus the "added" value that it has decreased in price because someone tried to upgrade it into something it is not.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,741 Likes: 495
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,741 Likes: 495 |
It is a standard upgrade personal project gun. Judge it by the quality of work. It is not a factory original and can not be valued like one. If a buyer wanted a factory high grade gun he has to be willing to pay the price. Only a seller expects a buyer to pay the same money for a upgraded gun.
If you cam across a "upgraded" painting of Mona Lisa done by someone who wanted the Mona Lisa but could not buy the original would you pay the same money for the upgrade? No, even if it was a perfect copy. Same thing for upgraded guns that mimic a high grade or rare gun. Looks the same is not the same and the money should not be there.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,144 Likes: 202
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,144 Likes: 202 |
We kind of know what the original configuration was. It is a scarce to rare Deluxe Trap. It is engraved by a popular American engraver of the mid 20th century, not an ugly gun. The checkering pattern includes (wisely) asymetrical fleur de lis of average quality. Any attempt to make fleur de lis symetrical is usually a disaster unless the craftsman is very talented. I think this is a pretty nice effort, well worth what an original Deluxe Trap in high condition would be worth, $8000 or more. This gun could be worth as much as $12000 if it passes the up close tests. I would like to own it and would pay a reasonable price for it.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 890
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 890 |
Post pics and ask your question on the Winchester 21 collectors website: www.model21shotgun.com It is definitely not factory work but looks very good. As such, it is a shooter that will attract a lot of attention at any shoot but cannot command "collector price". I have had original and aftermarket upgraded 21's and just enjoyed the hell out of shooting all of them. Many 21's have been upgraded and attempted to pass off as original. I see one or two a year that are factory fakes. For comparison here is a certified factory original 1949 21 duck with 30" 3" M&F barrels and extra 26" IC&M barrels that was upgraded by the Winchester custom shop in 1980 with no. 6 engraving by Pauline Muerrle and B checkering by John Durkin. The estate lawyers who had this gun for sale said it was Japanese engraving. Research proved otherwise. As there were around 32-33,000 21's produced in all grades and gauges throughout it's history, the number of aftermarket upgrades make the originals that much more valuable to me. Nevertheless, if you buy it rest assured you have one of the finest American double guns ever made. 
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
No Gary, THE FINEST!!! 
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 47 |
My only consideration for the gun was to use it as a sporting clays shooter. It's a moot point now as I didn't realize there was a minimum bid. (which I don't think was disclosed prior to the auction.) I thought it would go at a somewhat reasonable price due to being non factory up grade. Fooled again.
Dodging lions and wasting time.....
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 244
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 244 |
I'm no expert, but actually, grade for grade, the A.H. Fox is the better American gun.
JMHO.
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