doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com So how's my analysis? J Braddell & Son 12 boxlock

Following up to close this out, eightbore was kind enough to measure the Braddell's barrels at the Chantilly VA gun show last weekend.

• Breech ID RH 0.738" LH 0.743"
• Mid ID RH 0.738" LH 0.736"
• Choke RH 0.006" LH 0.038"
• Chamber thickness about 0.110-0.120"
• Barrel thickness was no less than 0.030", and mostly over 0.035"

So that's all positive; with some dents worked out and some RST shells I will don some goggles and try it out at some point. Thanks to all for your help and information - I've learned a lot and really appreciate it.

Positive enough;even with one tube out of proof it's still a nice gun. Why don't you have a 'smith take it apart and make sure the innards are ready to be used. It would be a shame to mess it up now.

Strong evidence for Bentley & Playfair sourcing is this Bentley & Playfair on sale at Vintage Doubles - barring some very minor engraving differences is is an extremely close match:

Based on the A&D use number, I would say 1887-1888, but the proof mark would narrow it down to 1887.
Those patents were good for 14 years, so the A&D patent expired in 1889, even though guns were finished sometimes later later with a Patent use number.
Both Anson & Deeley worked for WR. Anson was the foreman and Deeley was the managing director at the time. I don't think that they would have licensed the patent to others without the firm's approval and/or benefit. Deeley owned most of the WR stock in 1899.
The 1864 patent C bolt lockup is special to Westley Richards and would point to their direction.
Even though other brands have used a C bolt (Bland and many others), I would think that they would have sourced their action from WR.
Enjoy the gun!
WC-

That gun looks alot like my Alexander Blair 12b from the mid 1880's.

Actual retail value is $1600-$2600. Over $3k if in proof. Sadly, it seems that bore diameter mean it is not. I'd have it rebrowned in the UK and sent off to proof if you're going to own and enjoy it for awhile.

That would be retail price in a well advertised gun room in the USA.

Strike the above comment, thought ejectors were installed. $700-$1200.

Is this an ejector or non-ejector gun?

DDA

The Bentley &Playfair and Blair shown above look very similar to my 1887 Westley Richards "Highest Quality"(especially the engraving patterns and the church windows).

Question re proof rules:

The "not for ball" on this gun tells us that it was proofed prior to the rules of 1887, which is when the fractional bore sizes (12/1, etc) came into use. Thus, prior to 1887, a gun could have a bore diameter of up to .750 (11ga starting at .751) and still be a 12. If that gun had been submitted for reproof when the fractional bore sizes were still in use, then the left barrel would have been marked 12/1. However . . . since 12/1 did not exist when the gun was originally proofed, would it now be judged to be out of proof because it is more than .010 over the .729 12ga standard?

Good point, that's a good question for the proof house!
WC-