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Found an LC Smith in the 145,000 serial no. range, in an old lady's closet... Anybody tell me how to ascertain if it is a Featherweight? Also, even tho' I've never owned an LC Smith; would the overwhelming desire to own a shotgun nicknamed "Elsie" be reason enough to pay way too much for one????? Thanks, Grant.

but it may not weigh any less than a Regular frame

With a Smith gun in that serial number range, the simplest/surest way to determine frame ID is to check the serial number prefix stamped on the water table. If the prefix is an "R" stamp, the gun has a "Regular", or standard Smith frame; if the serial number prefix is "FW", the gun was built using Hunter's "Feather Weight", or smaller gun frame. If the serial number stamp prefix is "RE", or "FWE"; the gun was shipped with factory installed auto ejectors, but the ejector option code was the only optional feature code ever stamped on a Smith gun frame. Note also that these serial number prefix stamps do not apply to Smith gun made prior to about 1917-18 when no serial number prefix stamps were used. Also, Marlin era Smith guns produced from 1945-1950 can be identified by another serial number prefix stamp that will include the letter "S". All Marlin era guns will be stamped with the prefix "FWS" or "FWSE", as Marlin did not produce Smith guns using the "R" frame size. Finally, Marlin made Smith guns produced from 1967-1972 feature another serial number stamp as follows "FWM"; but auto ejectors were never offered on those Smith guns produced at the Marlin gun works.
Finally, the only other Smith gun prefix serial number stamp was for the experimental "C" frame; a hybrid frame that combined the FW sized frame with lock plates from an "R" frame. If this gun should be one of those; then one would pay whatever it took, as collectors are still searching for one of the illusvie six examples noted in Brophy's book (and you won't get lucky, as the serial number you posted is not one of those six).
And as to calling a Smith gun an "Elsie"; I can't do that, as that name reminds me of the Borden's Milk smiling cow logo. To me "Elsie" is a sissy name unbecoming the gold lightning bolts seen on a high grade Smith gun and which are illustrative of the sudden death a Smith gun wields upland game; I just refer to mind as "the Smith".

At a bank the other day checking a company's securities and the manager needed, for some reason, to close the vault. The door was extremely heavy and he was visibly straining to close it. When it slammed shut and the bolts slammed home he looked up at me and said, "Sounds like an LC Smith, don't it?"
I wouldn't hesitate to buy an LC Smith!!

Adding to this thread......I bought the "Elsie" from the old girl. Gave her a fair price; quite a lot more than she wanted. I buy and sell antiques. And my business philosphy is to always pay a fair price; never steal something from an unwitting seller.
Anyway, I ended up with a field grade, 16 ga. featherweight LC Smith shotgun, in excellent condition. In my first post, I inadvertantly gave the wrong serial no. range. 178xxx is the correct range; making it a 1938 era gun, according to the data listed on this site. 28 inch barrels, double triggers, auto safety, middle bead, top lever to right, lots of original finish, to include case colors at about 75%. No cracks in the stock behind the sideplates, or anywhere else for that matter. Close to 100% blue on barrels; dare not look through the bores at too strong a light, they are so shiney. All-in-all a hardly used, properly stored old shotgun.
Was pleased with the slightly under 6 3/4 pound weight, and the willingness to come to the shoulder swiftly.
Never owned a single LC Smith in my 71 years on this earth. Will never stop at just one after adding this one to the safe.......
Thanks to all who answered my original post. Grant.

Grant;
You did well. I was especially impressed by your "Deal", so much more than so many bragging about how cheaply they bought something of value. So many times it was someone who had been trusted & sought out for advise & they were then taken advantage of. I like your philosify.

More than likely your new gun has 2 9/16" chambers, given the date of manufacture. Check the bottom of the barrels for a chamber length marking. If it doesn't say 2 3/4" then it is the standard 2 9/16" of that time. For a using gun, I would have the chambers lengthened so that I wouldn't have to buy the more expensive 2 9/16" shells.

Built around 1938. Tom, that's pretty late for 2 9/16" chamber ain't it?

Chamber length was not marked as standard on L.C. Smith barrel flats until Marlin bought the company in 1945.........."except the 3" long range 12 bore and .410's".....

The chamber length for 16 gauge L.C. Smiths were shown as 2 9/16" until the Marlin purchase in 1945, however, beginning about 1929 a field grade 16 new in the box (serial # FW 124,318) inspected had 2 3/4" factory chambers and the specifications label on the box was so marked....so the Hunter Arms Factory did produce small bore 2 3/4" chambers prior to the early 1940's......

Common sense dictates that with any vintage gun purchase, the owner should measure the chambers for verification.....

If serious shooters will reload, 2 1/2" 16's cost the same as 2 3/4 inch.....all components are readily available....

To butcher any vintage chambers in the quest of "ammo cheapness" is sad indeed IMO....

I�ve always noted on this Board and elsewhere that chambers increase to the standard lengths they are today right around 1925 to 1926. I haven�t encountered a double built in the thirties that has the smaller chamber. Not saying there isn�t one but by then I would think he�s safe. But if you are going to buy old guns buy yourself some way to measure the chamber. They�re real easy to find and I agree with Doug, I wouldn�t change that gun at all not one in that condition.

It is not true that chamber lengths were not marked until Marlin bought Hunter Arms in 1945. I have a 1933 16ga field that is marked 2 3/4" on the barrel flats, and a 1936 .410 that is also marked 3" on the flats. Both these marks are in the style of the WF/LR marks with the length in the center of arched lettering. I also have a Marlin built 16 from 1946 that does not have a chamber length stamp on the flats. Others I have seen from the Marlin era have the chamber length stamped in a straight line close to the barrel lug. As to "butchering" a gun by lengthening the chamber to a more useful length, that is your personal opinion, and not one that I share, obviously.

After working on a large number of customer and personal L.C. Smiths over the years, I have NEVER viewed one with chamber markings other than the .410, yes, the 3" long range yes, the Marlin built guns, yes........other Hunter manufactured guns, no.........it is most likely your '33 16 has replacement barrels...?......I have several 16's from the '30's and NONE have chamber markings......same with my 12's and 20's etc. from the non-Marlin era........Brophy and Houchins also note no chamber markings as standard......

Drew and JDW and others will be along shortly and give you the update and pictures/data on how many L.C. Smith barrel flats were marked with FACTORY chamber dimensions prior to 1940.....

1906 2E



1923 Specialty



More here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19686599

I am of the opinion that the chambers were marked only if other than standard.

Regardless if they were marked or not I still believe 1938 is well beyond the old standard 2 9/16� chambers.

I must concur with Tom. Quite often at LCSCA events we see chamber stamps on guns prior to Marlin-era guns, and the general consensus is that the stamps became common around the time the sub-gauge longer chambers were standardized---mid to late 30's. As far as I know, no one has done a study--either of the Cody or LCSCA (one and the same) records to determine when these stamps were standardized, and Drew's pictures support Tom's statement. Further, I have pictures of a 1914 Eagle-- original-- with the chamber stamp.

The pictures posted by Dr. Drew above coincide with my Smith gun observations; which is that the gunworks stamped chamber lengths only on guns special ORDERED with other than standard length chambers were marked with a chamber length; and the Long Range/Wildfowl models. And based on those observations, I would tend to agree with Tom Martin that the factory chamber length on the subject gun is 2 9/16"; perhaps the owner of this gun will have them measured and post results here? As to altering those short chamber lengths; doing so would not give me heartburn provided the work was properly performed. But regardless of manufacture period (Hunter Arms/Marlin/etc), the company always maintained a service/repair department and regularly offered chamber lengthening services on barrel sets sent to them for modification; and other period companies offered the same services. The first that comes to mind is Savage, as apparently every Fox gun sent to Savage for repair got the chambers modified whether the customer made that request or not; which was OK I suppose, but why Savage decided to place that chamber stamp length on the sides of the barrels I'll never know!).

These three quotes all make sense to me, probably one out of every 500 or so, if that many, was special chamber ordered and barrel flat marked.....?.........I've never seen one personally, but they must be out there somewhere......Drew's pictures shows two non-standard ones.......

Anybody else have pictures and details of pre 1940 L.C. Smith guns with chamber length markings on the barrel flats......?.....

A record check with Cody could probably find out how many non-standard chambers were ordered......It would probably take at least eight hours minimum looking through the original factory ledgers at the museum.......?......

It would be very interesting to know the total number manufactured with these chamber length non-standard markings......According to the books, L. C. Smith and Hunter Arms combined produced a total of 299,603 double barrel guns from 1880 thru 1945.......

I have a 20ga field grade #FW115227, made around 1929 that has the correct marking for a 2 3/4" gun. 2 1/2" was normal at that time. I thought I had a photo of the marking but cannot seem to find it, I think Drew has a photo of the barrel flats in his stuff. I also have a 16ga # FW151574 (1937) that is 2 9/16, I believe that was common up to WWII.

'A record check with Cody could probably find out how many non-standard chambers were ordered......It would probably take at least eight hours minimum looking through the original factory ledgers at the museum"

The LCSCA has a copy of the Cody/Marlin shipping records; and seldom (I've not seen an example, but observe the never say never policy) are such details noted in the shipping ledger pages. For the most part all that is contained within those records are serial number, gauge, barrel length, grade, inspector initial, and ship date. After 1918 the ledgers were modified to include frame type (standard or feather weight) and factory code designations to indicate the factory options each gun was ordered and shipped with; ejectors (prior to 1918, Smith guns with factory installed auto ejectors were identified by serial number block), Hunter One Trigger, beavertail, vent rib, etc).

In addition to what Topgun has noted, the records will also indicate if the gun was shipped as a two barrel set. The length of both barrels will be given. Occasionally, a later additional barrel set will also be listed.I have two, two barrel sets. One is a 2E that was ordered with two barrels in 1906 and the ledger entry shows both barrel lengths. The other is a PE grade shipped in 1909 with chain Damascus barrels. In 1927 that gun was sent back for a set of steel barrels and the additional barrels were entered above the original entry.

topgun:

I've received some very good detailed information from the Cody staff over the years on the 30 or so L.C. Smith letters that I've received.....some better than others of course, but usually had the basic information as on the pictured Cody letters below as a minimum.......

You're probably right about the chamber details in the factory ledgers, but like you said, "never say never"...?....

I think Cody uses more than just the "shipping ledgers" for their factory letter composition, I believe they also have some factory manufacturing records that came from William S. Brophy's famous dumpster diving records retrieval back when he was the Senior Technical Advisor at the Marlin Factory......

Quote from William Brophy's "L.C. Smith Shotguns" book, The Gun Room Press 1st printing 1977............."Brophy happened by the old L.C. Smith workshop portion of the Marlin Factory as workmen were emptying the contents of old cabinets into the trash bin....Aware of the existence of the old records, curiosity led Brophy to examine the documents slated for destruction......They were the ENTIRE set of PRODUCTION and SHIPPING records from all the old L.C. Smith companies".........

Of course, the records were saved and their reconstruction led to the creation of William S. Brophy's L.C. Smith Shotgun book......

I also have some older Factory letters that I received directly from William S. Brophy at Marlin before Cody or anybody else had any L.C. Smith or Marlin records......William Brophy was quite congenial and friendly towards sportsmen and gun owners regarding factory letters on L.C. Smiths and Antique Marlin rifles, I think he enjoyed his job ......there was NO charge back in those days when the Kenna family owned it all.......

Going to bring this thread to the top again. Had a good gunsmith measure the chambers on this 16 ga. They do indeed measure at 2 3/4....... Whether or not they are factory standard is anybody's guess. But they are not marked. What is unmistakeable is the long, smooth, transition from chamber to bore. As with the chokes.....So perfectly honed, and polished;
someone at the factory knew their job well.
And speaking of chokes; this gun reminds me of a 12 Ga. JP Sauer I own, that has extremely tight chokes---extra full on the right barrel, and a lot tighter on the left.
I set up a target at a taped 25 yards; and the more open barrel of this Elsie put ALL the pellets from an RST #71/2 PaperLite into a 12" circle! Gonna' be a little tight for skeet..... My son and I kicked out a few clays with the Trius One Step..... Now he wants to try a few rounds of trap at the local sportsman's club.
Once again, thanks for all the responses to this thread......
Going to go find a few more old ladies' closets to plunder..
Grant.

Grant, in looking up your serial number, it is from 1936, and in this year the 20 gauge went from 2 1/2" to 2 3/4". As Tom Martin stated, unless there were shorter or longer chambers made in a time when the standards were either 2 1/2" or 2 3/4", then there would be a chamber stamp showing such on the barrels water table.
Most of the 16 gauges in 1936 were 2 9/16" chambers, and I have one from 1939 that still has 2 9/16" chambers. This was also the first year noted in a catalog of the SSP or Single Sighting Plane which was a higher rib and was an option of $5.00 extra.

As to the chokes, unless ordered different, they were sent from the factory with full/full no matter what grade or gauge.

I do believe that yours was opened to 2 3/4".

The fact that it is a 1936 says the chambers were lengthend and cones if they are long as described. I have never opened chambers, but rather had the cones lengthened. Accomplishes almost the same thing without taking possibly too much metal at the chambers end.

David; when did the Smith 16 bores get away from .650 to what? My 1931 16 has .650 bores and my 1945 .667.

2holer, the latest one that I have with .650 bores is 1927, a Specialty Grade. I would say that sometime in the 1930'S.

I recently bought a 16 ga Smith made about 1929 or 30. Generally good condition, though it appears to have had the barrels reblued (the barrel markings are only barely legible) and a numbe of the screws have been buggered. Is there a source of new screws whith out having a gunsmith or machinest make new ones?

Numrich Gun Parts has all the L.C. replacement screws you want in stock.......schematic + 7 pages and part numbers attached........

Good people, fast service, good prices..........

You can order via email or on the phone.......

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=3053

Best,

Ah! So interesting researching these old shotguns. JDW; I apologize. In my first post I inadvertantly listed my serial number as being in the 144xxx range.... In a later post I correctly listed it as being in the 178xxx range. This LC Smith shotgun, serial number: Fw 178048 is listed on the LCSCA website as being manufactured in 1939. The chart on this site claims it was made in 1938...... Confusing, but I am happy you replied to this thread. Your comments on the Single Sighting Plane prompted me to measure the rib. The height of my rib measures 1/4 inches above the barrels, at a point 12 inches ahead of the chamber end; near the middle bead. Due to your information, I'm thinking my gun has the optional high rib.
One other question, and I'll probably have more.....Both barrels are marked ahead of the flats: Armor Steel LLH. Do I have some kind of odd barrels made from Belgian blanks???
Thanks for all the good information...Grant.

Claybird, in obtaining replacement screws, the problem is that with most of them, the screw slot will not orientate to the line of the gun. To most people, this is better than looking at buggered screws. It is a time comsuming job to make them to orientate to the gun. The heads have to be made longer, a slot put in them, tightened in the gun, then mark the correct position of the slot, back to the lathe, cut the head to the right depth of the screw hole, and then cut another slot, then blue it. I just use Oxpho Blue giving it a coat or two.


Grant, if your rib is higher than the old flat or concave rib, then it does have the SSP rib.
The barrels were most likely Belgium with the LLH markings, and hopefully soon Dr.Drew will come on and give you the story on them.

The �LLH� of Laurent Lochet-Habran has been found on Smith and Hunter Arms Fulton and "Ranger" for Sears, Lefever, Fox, Cresent, and Ithaca Flues, NID and Lefever Nitro Special, and Westernfield Deluxe/Western Arms Long Range guns. Baker guns may be marked "Nitro Rolled Steel" and Folsom Crescent guns "Fluid Temper Steel." LLH 'rough forged tube' marked barrels have been found on Smith guns manufactured from 1914 to 1948.

Alot more here
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17ixogftgITEblNUWtmFBv96ZvgjK6eFell8GsAWd-KI

Can anyone shed some light on this, I am looking at a Marlin L C Smith, 68 - 71, field grade, it is my understanding that all of these field grades where 28" barrels, 12 ga, with Mod and Full fixed chokes. my question is I am looking at on now that the seller claims has a 3" chamber. I cannot find any reference to these guns made by Marlin between 68 & 71 that have 3" chambers, there are also no makings on the gun that I can find to reference 3" chambers. Did some of these guns come with 3" chambers?? If in fact this gun does have 3" chambers would it be an after market modification??

The Original catalog for the 1968-1972 Marlin re-introduced L.C. Smith side by sides, says all were 2 3/4 inch chambers....

Exact factory printed information as follows:

Offered in Field Grade $325.00 and DeLuxe $400.00 Models...

12 Gauge 2 3/4" Regular or Magnum shells....

Right Modified, Left Full choke....

LOP 14"... 1 1/2 drop at comb...2 1/2 Drop at Heel...

28" barrels with Simmons floating ventilated steel rib with front and middle bead sights....

Weight about 6 3/4 lbs.

Also noted under other details are the facts that include Marlin used cyanide case colors on these guns instead of the original bone and charcoal case colors, the raised rib was in fact an aluminum rib and 'glued' in place...the trigger plate is stamped THE MARLIN FIREARMS COMPANY INC.

2,539 Field Grade guns were built between 1968 and 1972, 188 Deluxe guns were built during the same time period and roll stamped Deluxe on the water table.....Serial numbers all preceded by FWM (Feather Weight Marlin).....

There is no mention of any 3" chambers on these guns, so most likely the gun you're looking at was "owner altered"....

Hope this helps...

I would be Verrrrry Warrry of this-- The re-intro Smith under the Marlin Aegis 1968-1972 was never built to handle heavy loads, whether 2 & 3/4" or 3"-- I have two 12 gauge Smiths with 3" chambers- a Older 3E re-barreled at Fulton in 1928 with 32" Nitro Steel barrels, factory rib and F&F chokes- has thew reinforcing yoke behind the barrel hanger loop too- and a 1929 Ideal Longrange 30" F&F ejector gun- also with the yoke and stamped Longrange on the bottom of the barrel lug- neither are marked 3"- but as Buck Hamlin checked them out for me, if he says his chamber gauge goes to 3", I believe it- Both have had the stock heads glas-bedded by him, and I never shoot 3" loads in either one--Sounds like the seller is like some of the clowns who, regarding Smiths they are trying to hustle: (1) Don't know ejectors from extractors (2) Don't know a R frame from a FW frame ad infinitum--The later Marlin Smiths came out as a basic DT extractor gun, and you could buy a Japanese Win 101 with single selective trigger and ejectors for the same money- later the Browing Clitori series and also the Daly Japanese doubles-- wrong marketing move- just as the current Italian boxlocks with dummy sidelock plates are no more a real Hunter Arms LC Smith than Chef Boy-Ar-Dee is Benito Mussolini--

William, unless this gun was special ordered from Marlin for 3" chambers, then it would have a stamp on the barrels water table. Ir would then have the standard 2 3/4" chambers, and I have seen some that have the 2 3/4" chambers on the same flat as the serial number. If it was opened by someone, I would still not shoot 3" loads from it. The guns at this time from Marlin were proofed at higher than nitro loads available at the time, and would be safe with the heavier loads offered THEN. This would not apply to today's modern Magnum 2 3/4" loads.

RWTF, If your Longrange is not stamped 3", then it is 2 3/4", unless someone opened it up. Not all Longrange or Wildfowl guns were 3" chambers.
My Longrange 3" chambered gun, the chamber gage goes to 2 15/16", and my gages are built from Hunter Arms Co. prints.

Thanks to all, I have put this one in my rear view mirror and moved on.

I am going to look at a new Browning citori, waterfowl tomorrow.

thanks again for the input.

It has not been mentioned that all the Marlin built LC Smith guns were on the FW frame, while all the 3" guns were on the regular frame. As far as proof pressures, that should not be a consideration, as the proof pressures for the 2 3/4" and the 3" are the same.

Instead of speculating, why not just measure the chambers? Doesn't matter much what the seller "claims," because a lot of sellers don't know their ass from their elbow.

Price? My 1970 Digest says; the Elsie $225; Winchester 101 $310.

The 1970 Digest also has a full length article on the 1968-72 Smith.

It is distinguished by being the only, at that time, hand fitted double to rise out of the ashes.

The muzzles are flared 1/2" back to the maximum choke constriction; sort of like a 21 skeet I guess. The article says it patterned normal with regular loads, but when they went to turkey a wildfowl loads with larger shot the barrels did a switch on pattern. At 40 yds the right barrel averaged 82% and the left 76%.
They believe it had to do with the way the forcing cones were configured. The left forcing cone is 1 1/8" long. The right is 7/8". I wonder if they mistakenly listed the right for the left concerning the cones. Bores were both .731. Left muzzle .692; right .708. Chambers 2 3/4", with chamber wall thickness averaging .182 and .151 at 3". IMO, with those measurements, opening to 3" wouldn't comprise integrity.

He said the hard sears have 7/32" width of bearing surface and should prevent doubling. They also said the sinking in of the lockplates causing friction of sears was the other cause of doubling in older Smiths, although I've never had a Smith double. It says a flatheaded jackscrew was sunk into the stockwood under each sideplate and adjusted so the sears cannot touch.

He does mention firing magnum loads Super X Mark 5 Mag. and went on to say it is the only gun he ever saw, single or double, that will put the whole load of buck shot where desired.

All in all, doesn't sound like a bad gun to me.

I'll bet you are right-but as i only shoot 2 & 3/4" shells in the aforementioned two 12 Smiths- and only RST 2.5" shells in my Specialty FWE circa 1933- Machts Nicht! If you want to shoot 3" shells, and I do for late season Winter pass shooting Canadas, then I use either one of two Model 12 heavy Duck guns, or my camo-ed- POS Mossy-Burgher 835 Utility-Mag- But NOT 3.5",I shoot one of those babies ONCE in the Mossy-Burgher 835- and I added some lead weight to the fiberglas hollowed butt-stock too (just as my M12 3" Mags have added lead weight in their butts as well) and I didn't much care for the recoil or the added muzzle plats through the portholes near the muzzle--

I think Marlin's mistake may have been making the gun in 12ga. Back then, there were bunches of 12ga Elsies on the market for not a lot of money. If they'd brought it out as a 20--far fewer of those produced, compared to 12's, in any of the old American classics--it might have sold better.

By 1968, the sxs market in the States had started to revive somewhat. The Ithaca SKB's were selling well. There were decent European imports again, from Beretta, Bernardelli, Sauer, etc. And Browning wasn't long from making the plunge with its Miroku-made BSS.

Re prices, I bought an Ithaca SKB 150 in 1972, new, for $162. That was a military rod and gun club price, so I'm sure normal retail was somewhat higher. My other option at the same club was a 101 for $190.

Larry, I bought my 20ga SKB 500 about that time for $180 from wholesale distributer. Use it a lot.

I worked at Marlin in '71 when they were still putting those LCS shotguns together. They were a source of problems to them then and shortly there after they stopped assembling them.

The stocks were glass bedded with a brown epoxy mixture. The brand name on the epoxy was 'Walter Kidde',,I can still see the box,,,a hardware brand that still sells everything from nuts and bolts to sweaters & gloves.
The same epoxy was used to bed the stock head, lock plates and bbl rib.
Once the stock & metal parts were in place,,the assembler used the same stuff to glue the vent rib to the bbls.
If needed, the forend assembly was glass bedded to the forend wood for a better fit also.
Ribs were from PolyChoke if I remember right.
The bbl assembly w/o the ribs was polished and hot-salt blued first after it was fit to the frame. Then the aluminum rib was glued in place. Modern time saving methods at work.

The actual assembly of the shotgun parts was done by the same person. Might sound a bit odd,,but all the other firearms are done in sub assemblys,,then those are sent along to a final assembler who puts those together.

There was a problem with the bbls,,the chambers would blow out on occasion during proof.
We had a secure/ locked area in the parts loft over the repair and range that contained those that had met that fate. The area was mearly a chain link fenced off section so you could plainly see the shotguns lined up there,,some lying on the floor.
I never heard of one coming back from a customer like that. Perhaps they did and went directly to their 'room'. Not something for show and tell around the office.

Only 2 people assembled the LCS when I was there. I can't recall their names. They along with a few others also assembled centerfire lever action rifles,,doing that was considered the top job of the assemblers.

Working on the LCS's was an extra project, so they were scheduled separate work time for the shotguns. The fact that the epoxy needed to cure made it so that a few guns were started (glued up!) and set aside untill the next time they'd be scheduled to work on them. Could be the next day,,might be a couple days later. It was not a continuous assembly line.

Many assembled guns would come back from the range with problems of doubling, misfires, won't fire, ect. Those were worked on by the same 2 assemblers to make right. They were not brought into the repair dept where I worked that I recall though we had a complete inventory of parts for them except the bbls and frames.
Those parts were for warrantee work.

No original LCS were accepted for work anymore either. Originals were returned to their owners with a note stating 'no parts available' though there were thousands of parts in stock from the smallest screw to complete bbl sets and frames.

Just as well really. A request to restore would get the customers shotgun disassembled and the metal sent to the polishing room then off to the bluing room,,the stock and forend over to the 'wood room'. The parts were sent through the factory processes that the 336 and model 60 got. Machine polish metal, machine sanded wood, hot salt blue, spray finished wood. Then back to Repair for reassembly.
I remember well one sorry looking Crown grade.
Col. Brophy put a stop to 'repairing and restoring' original LCS shotguns at Marlin. If it's not going to be done right, then don't do them.
The people that ran Marlin were strictly business people and there was no time for restoring collector guns. It didn't make money.

In truth there were only 2 people there at the time that really knew the old LCS. John Miller and Larry Sisson. John was in his early 60's then. Larry was 74 but kept working dispite emphysema that cut his work days in half some of the time . He'd always worked in the CT gun industry and his first 'gun' job was with Winchester in 1914. Pretty neat guys to have a bench next to.
If any of the new LCS's came back in for work (warrantee), it was John Miller that generally worked on them in the Repair Dept.
He still had his set of LCS tools from the first time Marlin made the 'Smith.

Sorry for the long post,,just rambling.

I thought your post was very interesting Kutter. Could have been longer yet.

Thanks Kutter for the post, I remember you posting this information a few years back about the "glue gun" that Marlin built in the 70's under the guise of an L.C. Smith.......

I for one was hoping you would pop up and post this story again, first hand experience is always best, seeing is believing.......

Thanks Again and Merry Christmas to You and Yours,