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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12 Likes: 1
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12 Likes: 1 |
Thanks for the information. I have now obtained a book, J.P. Sauer & son, by Arfmann and Kallmeyr (2004), that has some of this same information. The book is divided into the Suhl era and the Eckernforde era.It mentions (p. 87-88) that the East German firm of VEB Ernst Thalmann advertised guns "Made by J.P. Sauer & son" in 1960, including a model 8 side by side shotgun (some of the advertising is illustrated), but that there was no longer any relationship to the actual Sauer family (they having escaped to West Germany). So I guess I have found the answer to my own question.
It does seem that there actually were two different "Sauer" Model 8 (VIII) shotguns produced after the war. One made by workers in Suhl (GDR) and one made by (approx. 70) escaped Sauer workers supplemented by local workers at the firm managed by the actual Sauer family in Eckernforde (northern West Germany). I assume the West German production was superior in quality if the GDR Merkel that I have is any indication of the quality of GDR Sauer production. It would be good to compare my West German Sauer Model VIII to an actual East German Sauer Model 8, rather than just to the Merkel (although I understand from your postings that the GDR Sauer Model 8 would be essentially the same gun as the GDR Merkel).
It does seem a shame that people might confuse the very high quality shotgun that I have in the Sauer Model VIII with its East German namesake...I mean, the Merkel is nice, but it can't compare to the West German version in the Sauer Model VIII.
By the way, the book claims that Suhl was originally occupied by American troops on April 3rd, 1945. The 18 Sauer buildings were burned down on April 18th, including the firm's archive, during the American occupation. The Soviet units didn't take over the occupation until July. They then immediately ordered Sauer to begin production of hunting rifles for higher ranking Soviet officers. The book claims 9,500 "hunting weapons" were produced at Suhl in 1946.
The Russian NKVD (secret police) arrested the remaining Sauer family member, Hans Sauer, in 1947 and he disappeared. They then expropriated J.P. Sauer and removed it from the register of companies, founded VEB Fortuna and then integrated this firm into Thalmann in 1951.
J.P. Sauer & son, by Arfmann and Kallmeyr (2004), is a good book with precise documentation.
Here in Canada, I think the Merkel shotguns were imported more freely from the GDR during the Cold War than they were in the United States and hence you see the GDR Merkel shotguns more often.
And after all that...I still haven't got a clue what the Merkel might be worth.
Last edited by robinpeck; 10/08/12 07:00 PM.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,198 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,198 Likes: 7 |
I've seen them offered between $400 and $1500, depending on condition.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12 Likes: 1
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12 Likes: 1 |
Yes, value is all about condition, isn't it. Condition, condition, condition. Of course, people also have a variety of opinions on condition. I'd call this Merkel shotgun NRA "Very Good", but someone else might grade it up or down slightly. In the end I guess its whatever someone will pay.
By the way, Dave in Maine, I'm just across the line from you in New Brunswick (I'm from Western Canada (Alberta/B.C.) but am working down here in the Maritimes right now.) Where can I get information about upcoming Maine gunshows? I attended a couple of them a few years ago but haven't been down to one for quite awhile.
Last edited by robinpeck; 10/09/12 05:19 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931 |
It wouldn't be quite correct to generalize, however, that all East German guns were inferior in quality. At one time, to avoid competition, the major brands collected under the Ernst Thellman umbrella (which was really first and foremost a way of keeping Suhl gunmaking as close to old traditions as was possible while maintaining a Socialist facade), were given different market niches. And Merkel, sadly, was lowest. To compensate, they were given the sport versions of the O/U, which got Olympic fame, but their sporting guns were the cheapest of all. Sauer was better, and Simson best, but the truly best-of-the-best in GDR was Buhag. They could make an A&D boxlock as nice as anyone.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12 Likes: 1
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12 Likes: 1 |
...except that the claim according to the Sauer book...is that the GDR (East German) "Sauer" was not a Sauer at all...and that the East Germans used the "J.P. Sauer" name as a kind of label for a "Sauer-type" of shotgun...but of course the book was written by the West Germans...glad they're back together again...makes things so much simpler...
Last edited by robinpeck; 10/12/12 07:57 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931 |
...except that the claim according to the Sauer book...is that the GDR (East German) "Sauer" was not a Sauer at all... The East Germans made identical claims about the West German Sauer. They insisted that the machinery, the location, and most of the personnel were more important in terms of keeping the tradition than the firm's director and a handful of favorites. You're right, it's good they're together again
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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