doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com What's the Holland's Paradox twist rate?

Spent a couple of days googling, but came up with only "fairly sharp". How much is that in inches or mm per turn? Especially interested in 12 and 20 bores.

Don't have an answer that I am willing to stand behind. I know the Westley's were changed slightly.

Must be pretty hard to measure, with the rifling so short AND progressive. I've met only one positive figure on this topic - the Buturlin-Matska Paradox, 20 bore 24 gauge, had 1 in 900 mm. And 7 grooves, just like Fosberry's patent. The Russian sources have it as if Buturlin invented small-bore Paradox rifleing, a few years before Holland and Westley came up with their own 20 ga. paradoxes (the hint being that the wily Brits picked up the idea from an innocent naive Russian lawyer-ornitologist-gun guru). I'm wondering.

In what year did the Buturlin appear?

Matska took the order some time in 1898 and the gun was completed around 1900

Holland didn't adjust or reinvent the paradox for each gauge. Even though they didn't release a 20 until after 1900 it followed the same format as the 12.

up to the twist rate?

Haven't held a Holland 20 between my hands and can't measure minor variances in the twist with certainty but the 8's 10's and 12's don't seem to vary. One other point, Holland and Westley were just as concerned with patterning their rifled choke guns as their accuracy, I would think more so with a 20. Westley Faunetas have a three groove choke. With the rifled choke guns all the "magic" is in the that last several inches of the barrels.

I thought as much. Thanks.
And by the way, I don't think Fosberry's patent mentions bore size or twist rates.

1 turn in 36"

where did you come up with that figure?
I just completed an extensive research project and two part story about the subject. I have a 16 bore H&H (the only true Paradox) and it sure doesn't look like your figure.
With only a couple of inches to measure I didn't even try.

The only true "paradox"? You mean by brand name. After 1900 the patents expired and many other companies used the rifled choke Fosbery patent notably WR.

Darlington Gunworks used to put paradox-type rifling into SXS shotguns. I called asking about it and they don't do it any more, as they only did about 5 a year. They used 1/60 twist and the rifling was about .008 deep. So if they reamed out the chokes, leaving only .008, if the shot pattern was at all uniform it would be rather open.

Ross Seyfried mentioned it in the DGJ and Handloader articles on his hammer paradox. don't have the issue #'s right now, but it was when he unveiled his regulating load that basically everyone follows now. Sorry for the seriously delayed response.