doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Help Identifying Drilling

I happened across an old drilling at a local shop and am curious as to just what it is and what it's value may be. I can find no makers mark on the gun. It is low 4 digit serial number. It appears to be of East German manufacture based on the info I was able to gather from the proof marks. If what I believe to be the date stamp is correct, it is dated may of 1905. I believe the proof marks indicate 16ga x 16ga x 9.3MM. The shop is asking $850 for it...is this a decent price? With no makers mark, is there any way of figuring out manufacturer of this? Approximate value???
I have found several pictures of similar guns but they all had the safety/selector mounted on the side of the neck, above the trigger group...this one has the safety/selector on the top tang and another slide lever along side the front trigger.
Any help/info would be greatly appreciated.

ydduit,
The drilling seems to have been proofed in Zella-Mehlis in June(if that is a 6 next to the 05)of 1905.The 1079(?)is the ledger number.The 108.49 is the bore dia, expressed in ga.measurement. This is one of the marks found on 9.3x72R,but may also be found on other calibers as well(9.3x57R comes to mind). The way to be sure is to make a chamber cast.If this is not possible,percentages would be on the side of it being 9.3x72R.As long as the barrel is in good enough shape,ammo for any of the 9.3s can be loaded(factory ammo for x72R is avaliable).The shotgun barrels are"short chambered" with 2 9/16"(65mm)chambers and both are choked(usually pretty tight).The groove dia.of rifle barrels with the 108.49 marking are usually around .362-.364". You are correct that the selector/safety arrangements are a little unusual on drillings of this type/age. Maybe Axel or Raimey can shed more light on this.You might say the gun was made in eastern Germany,but in 1905 there was no East Germany.I hope you find this helpful.
Mike

It is one of the Zella-Mehlis Roux action variants:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post274691

I've seen the star on the lower tube just forward of the flats but usually it is paired with a H. Any initials in the dolls-head well of the frame or near the forend hanger, besides the LK - Louis Kelber?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

This Zella-Mehlis made drilling has the same unusual safety/selector arrangement as the "Wagner drilling" offered by Griffin & Howe and asked about by Supergenius in a close-by thread.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=294442&#Post294442

It might well be worth $850, but you should remember the cost of feeding it is not low. Short 16 ga rounds (From RST) go for about $11-14 a box, and 9.3x72R seems to retail for several bucks each time it goes bang.

Assuming the bores are good - something you can see yourself - I would say passing a good, thorough inspection by someone who knows drillings would be a prerequisite and should be something you negotiate into the deal with the shop owner.

OTOH, the engraving is substantial and that, in and of itself, is worth something.

Handloading makes what would otherwise be expensive,reasonable. Also its a fun extension to our hobby.
Mike

True, but one has to remember that it takes some bit of shooting to amortize the investment in reloading.

Of course, I reload for my shotguns, too.

It has been confirmed that the Wagner Drilling has a Greener safety.

I believe this is the safety in the triggerguard bow to which Axel is referring:

"This Drilling was retailed by Paul Mossiers, Junkernstr., Breslau, Silesia, who opened his business in 1897.
It is made to Jacob Roehmer's German Patent DRP #72583, 10.14.1892
see: http://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/depatisnet?action=pdf&docid=DE000000072583A
for the set/single trigger arrangement. Jacob Roehmer, Suhl was the manager of the "R�merwerk", mostly a machine shop and parts factory supplying the guntrade, though they made guns of their own too, like the unique "Roemerpistole",which could be converted to a selfloading rifle, or the selfloading "Beckerflinte" shotgun. Many "name" gunmakers like Dornheim, Greifelt, Thieme & Schlegelmilch, Stadelmann, several Kesslers, Funks, Jungs were shareholders."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=233851
Seems the images have been moved or something wrong with Geno's link.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

No, Raimey, this is not Roehmer's patent mentioned before, as the drilling shown by ydduit has a selector slide alongside the front trigger. The verbal description of DRP 72583 does not mention such a slide. In fact the Roehmer design was meant to avoid any seperate barrel selector, be it a slide or lever. The barrel is selected by setting the front trigger by pushing it forward. If unset it fires the right shot barrel, if set the rifle barrel.

ydduit,

You have a PM.

Bill Warren