doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Daly Lindner Manufacture Dates

Anyone have information on the dates of manufacture for Lindner Daly's? Am looking at one with serial #10xx. Damascus barreled, boxlock action. Have not located any listing of serial numbers.

Thanks for any input.

Pat

Ken Georgi is working on another article that may explain everything. His recent article in the German Gun Collectors newsletter didn't actually include a serial number chart. Maybe he will post what he has so far.

Hello Pat,

I may be able to help. As Eightbore mentioned, there are no surviving Lindner nor Prussian Daly records. Instead a dedicated group of Lindner enthusiasts has worked to collect information on Lindner guns. Michael Petrov and Bill Wise began the effort and now I maintain the database of Lindner guns. At last count the database held over 260 Lindner and "related" guns recorded with more being added each week. I added two more last night - one of which now sits in my gun safe. :-)

The database of guns in concert with 20+ period catalogs has been the best source for dating Lindner Daly guns. Unfortunately the numbering sequence, especially for the earlier crown over pistols marked guns, is not straightforward (an understatement), but I think we are getting very close.

In regard to your Daly -

My best estimate is that your gun was made circa-1901. Here's what I'd expect to seee on your gun:

- HAL over crossed pistol marks ahead of the barrel flats
- Typical 1892 German proofs, but not 1912 proofs
- Country of origin mark on the action flats ("PRUSSIA")
- A second serial number of sorts ahead of the barrel flats mid-way toward the forend lug about 200 numbers greater than the serial number
- Likely a set of small initials ahead of the barrel flats (e.g., "RW")

Your gun may or may not have sideclips as these were introduced right about this time (this feature will also be model dependent.) I'd expect it to have cocking inddicators and a horn or ebony forend tip.

The exact date SD&G stopped offering damascus barrels is not clear. The 1899 catalog shows damascus as an option. By 1902 only fluid steel was offered though it is very likely it could be special ordered after that time.

What model Daly do you have Pat? I'd love to add it to the database if you'd be willing to (privately) provide me some additonal information. Let me know if you are looking for any other other information and I'll provide what I can.

Best regards,
Ken

Ken,

Thanks for the information. I do not have it yet. Have looked at it and love the lines. Will provide more information if and, more likely, when I get it.

Seller says it is a Superior grade. Fairly plain, but decent wood and well fit, solid gun. Did have the crossed pistols, but do not recall the other proof marks. I am learning the British marks, but am a complete novice as to German marks and guns.

Congratulations on your new Lindner.

Pat

Pat,

When you know more about the gun, I'd be happy to help.

In regards to the "Superior grade" identification . . . (alright, let me admit up fron that this point has sort of snow-balled to become pet peeve :-) ) . . . no such thing as a Lindner-made "superior grade" Daly.

Unfortunately the "grade" terminology, and specifically the "empire" and "superior" grade terminology, has been incocrrectly associated with Lindner (and most other) Prussian Dalys.

Schoverling, Daly, and Gales (SD&G) retailed Charles Daly guns for over 50 years. During this period Charles Daly guns were sold by model number (e.g., a "number 185"). Some of these guns were grouped by quality level (e.g., "diamond quality"). While the diamond quality term was first applied to one model (one hammerless gun and one hammer gun), it was later used as an umbrella term for several models. Depending on the year, a model 275 "diamond quality" gun might represent SD&G's highest offering, or few years later, might have been a couple rungs from the top. That is why the model number, in context of the year of production, is so important. Without both, there can be a lot of ambiguity.

To nitpick, the "grade" terminolgy is not correct. I use it too occasionally, but it is a collector term and technically not correct. The "quality level" is really how some of them were classifed.

However, the "empire" and "superior" terms are the ones that make me cringe when applied to pre-1930 Prussian Dalys. The terms first show up a circa-1930 post-SD&G catalog. This catalog was one of the first catalog reprints available 10+ years ago, and the terms unfortuntely found their way into the Blue Book and other pubs and have been used (incorrectly) ever since to describe earlier Daly guns. I have never seen a SD&G catalog use the terms. And since Lindner ceased his production circa-1916 for SD&G, there is technically no such animal as a Lindner-made "superior quality gun." Again, model numbers are how Daly guns should be classified.

I know it is a small point. Just realize that the scope of different modles of Prussian Dalys is much more complex than the "superior, empire, diamond, regent diamond" summary found in the Blue Book. The data should be corrected, but explaining it all would take several pages given the number of models and features of Prussian Daly shotguns.

OK, off my soap box <g>. Hopefully you are able to bring the gun home Pat.

Best regards,
Ken

Ken,

Thanks for venting. Otherwise I will not learn anything.

Eightbore indicates you did a recent article for the German Gun Collector's newsletter. I went to the site, but could not locate the article.

Any chance you can send a copy to pwhite5251@sbcglobal.net? I'd love to read it.

Pat

Pat,

I was given some extra copies by the publisher - send me your address and I will stick one in the mail for you.

Ken

kkgeorgi@comcast.net

Ken Georgi...please email me so I can recapture yours...I also have info on HAL Shotgun to add to the DB...Thanks, Jeff Stephens

Well isn't this something. Ken Georgi meets Jeff Stephens. We're making progress here. The Wise man would be impressed. I hope both of you can attend the "meeting" at Sanford in April. Bill Murphy

Eightbore,

I'll be down in Sanford in April. See you there!

Jeff,

I'll drop you an email tonight when I'm home.

Ken