doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Generic British Boxlock vs W. Richards Droplock

Ted says it nicely: "My "gee-wiz" era is much behind me, I'm afraid. My preference is toward a sound A&D boxlock, sans ejectors, or single triggers of any type."

My purchase of the WR was from a time before I saw the wisdom of the above words. Simplicity has definite advantages. I loved the looks and still do. But wish it were a simpler and more repairable mechanism.

Over the years I realised that a premium is levied on those with a passion, and it just happens that the gunmaking fraternity tend to be a little heavy handed when compared with others also catering to passions.

We warble about the hand finish and polishing etc. Both the Hasselbland and the Ferrari engine have plenty of both, and they cost a fraction of a gun weight for weight. We have to admit at some point that gumakers see us coming.

And to relate this to the original post. There are many excellent British (if you insist) boxlocks that offer quality to spare at reasonable prices. One overlooked gun, that is still available at low prices is the BSA boxlock. It has dovetailed chopper lump barrels (ie true demiblock), a split bottom cover, above average internal finish and goes for less than 1000 dollars in auctions. IT does not have a name, nor artist engraving. Interestingly it has really fine action sculpting, which is apparently not yet in vogue. I wonder how long it will be before the "collectors" discover the virtues of the BSA and prices reflect the discovery.

Shotgunlover,

I can't disagree with the last post. A W&S 700 or any similar decent quality British (and some European) A&D actioned gun gets you about 90% or better of the qualities provided by a "best" boxlock or sidelock SxS for about 10% of the price.

The additional cost to get to the "best" level absolutely is disproportionate but life is short & some people enjoy going through life with nice things that are the best available. If they can pay for them then more power to them. Based on the number of "best" gunmakers that seem to come & go or get absorbed by someone who can subsidize them they probably can't charge enough for what it requires to provide the additional 10% getting to "best" level to stay in business.

Anyway we are straying way OT here.

A W&S 700 is what triggered my distrust of tumblers with integral strikers. I'm told a few exist with disc set strikers, but, have never witnessed this.
Maybe it isn't true.
That said, a simple boxlock, well finished, with touches like double triggers, and disc set strikers, a gun that is actually built for a shooter/hunter, is a great find. The majority of these are English or Continental guns, and always will be.
Low maintenance is as good a thing on one's guns as it is on one's wife. Glitz only goes so far.

Best,
Ted

Well, if you distrust integral strikers then you really narrow your selection of boxlocks as the Winchester 21, Parker & Fox guns as well as the majority of British built A&D guns have integral strikers. I'm sure some have broken but I don't think it's all that common & at least one maker (Fox I think) advertised that the integral striker was the better & less prone to failure system.

Disc set strikers have issues also as in my (limited) experience the discs can be very difficult to remove even if you have a correctly fitting disc removal tool & a heavy vise to hold the action. Certainly something I wouldn't attempt to do in the field. I will agree that it is usually easier & cheaper to replace than a a striker integral with the hammer if it does happen.

The best insurance is to travel with a spare gun. Like a jack & a tire repair kit or spare tire, if you have it along you rarely need it.

Some years ago I purchased a Birmingham box lock with integral strikers and discovered that the points on both hammers was badly eroded and hardly dented the primers. Jack Rowe in Enid, Oklahoma, tig welded both with new points, filed them up and it has worked flawlessly since. It wasn't a big job at all. I think the best selling point of hammers with integral firing pins is that they are much less apt to hang up on a primer.

The less moving parts in a gun action the less there is to break, or otherwise go wrong. Fox had it right. Only three moving parts in the lock, integral hammer firing pin made of nickel steel forging that can be dry fired thousands of times with no damage whatsoever to the hammer, firing pin or frame. Perfection in simplicity.

WR makes fine guns, no doubt, but no more reliable than the Fox. If you have a thing for droplocks, by all means buy them. Want a really fine, fancy boxlock gun? Get a CSMC Fox, with as much fluff and bling as you are willing to pay for.

SRH

I only have one gun with disc set strikers. The tool is very well fitted, and looks like a screw driver with three little pins on the end, instead of a blade. The strikers are spring loaded against the disc, and don't hang up in the primers. Either disc is easily serviced anywhere the tool and a spare pin happen to be (usually in my glove box). It is a slick deal, with one of the three holes that match the tool having a witness mark, that tells you how far to turn it in. If one needed a vise to hold the action, one screwed it in way too tight.
I could service them in the dark, with the light from a match.
I have ventured away from spare guns since the meth craze started to blow hard-hunters vehicles make tempting targets in rural areas. Oh, there is a spare S&W 360 PD Chief's Special Airweight along any time I leave the house, and especially when I hunt in Pine or Aiken counties, but, it is in my waist holster.
I haven't found any of the listed American doubles to be really trouble free guns, either, by the way. Some have.

Best,
Ted

The quest of utter simplicity, combined with acceptable aesthetics and the best metal finish possible, have led me to experiment with shotgun design. No, it is not a business thing. Marketing guns, especially internationally, is a buraucratic nightmare.

My latest attempt, taken as far as 3D printing of a receiver with working metal action bits, is a round action, trigger plate lock, with inboard hammers. All action bits are held in place by three pins, the action provides auto rebound, hammer block for safety, works with only three coil springs. The barrels are simplified too.

It is, (my opinion, not gospel), simpler than a boxlock and safer, and much better looking. It is tempting to think of actually making a "real" one, to see test the theory that minimalism increases pleasure of use. From boxlocks to metaphysical debates, not the original poster had in mind, but possibly helpful in his quest.