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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5 |
I have became the owner of a 16ga Double Barrel St. Etienne Shotgun recently after some battering. I need some help figuring out the age and a value. It's a great looking gun. I'm thinking late 1800"s to early 19's Thanks in advance for any help. [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img] [img:center]  [/img]
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
That certainly looks like a Manufrance Robust finished out by another maker.
I would estimate it would date to the 1920s ?
And the value if in good working order with good barrels in the 400ish range, and a nice old gun for hunting.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859 |
I doubt the Robust connection, mainly because of the side clips, I've never seen a Robust with side clips. I do agree on the 1920's manufacture date and the $400 price range.
It has 2.5" chambers and a standard proof.
Steve
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5 |
Thought for sure it was older, but I'm not the best at finding information.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
Concur on the early interwar date. I've seen a couple that were alleged to be pre-WWI, but no explanation for that dating was provided. The design is overall more of that seen on interwar doubles. The problem with dating French doubles is, unless it ran through a proof house that stamps dates (e.g., in Belgium, German or Austria) there's no definitive way of knowing. You might be able to suss out a date from the combination of makers' and mechanics' stamps, but I'm not aware of any compendium of such that would make it possible to do so (unlike over in the German-Austrian room, where a couple guys know not only who the mechs were but also whose in-laws they were).
I have a similar gun, sans sideclips, that I and everyone else characterize as a guild gun. I think a guild-er is what you have here. Chances are, if it were a Manufrance it would say so on the gun, and the same for the Robust.
All in all, it's a nice hunting gun and one you can carry all day. $400 seems a fair value, depending on the bore condition.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859 |
Bowman,
Since many French guns are "guild guns" of unknown manufacture they typically don't carry the higher price tags that a similar quality British, German or Belgium might carry. Most French guns I've seen are very well made, very light weight, way over-choked XXF/XF are not all that uncommon. The barrel length is metric, so if you measure it, don't expect a round number in inches. I'm a big fan of French guns.
Steve
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
I'd say post-1924. The little squiggle under the PT, on both the barrel flats and the water table, looks to me like the "supplementary mark for definitive proof in completely finished state". That's not a mark you see on many French doubles, and it's one that is more helpful in dating the gun.
Lots of nice French phrases as well, but most are basically meaningless--more like advertising than anything else. The range is guaranteed (but they don't tell you what it is). The choke's been adjusted (but they don't tell you what it is). And the barrels are made of "safety steel", whatever that is. Looks to be your basic French guild gun, which--as noted above--is not bad news at all, but rather good news because they're pretty solid products. You may find that trigger pulls are quite heavy. That, in addition to a whole lot of choke, is perhaps the major problem I've found with vintage French doubles.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
Yup. It's probably the best $400 double you'll ever find.
Do note - for whatever reason, the bores on the French doubles seem inordinately susceptible to rusting and pitting. So, take care to clean ASAP if not sooner.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
The placement of the action Pins and screws as well as the overall shape sure look like a Robust to me.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
I won't dispute you other than to say that AFAIK Manufrance was never shy about putting its name on its product, particularly when it came to the Robust. If you've got more information, I'm all ears/eyes b/c I know I can always learn something here and that makes the price of admission more than worth it. 
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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