doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Spanish Doubles

Kyrie: Your post makes a lot of sense. I imagine if you took an English Best gun that weighs 6 1/2 lbs and you shot 1500 fps boomers in it, it would fare no better than a Spanish counterpart. I don't have much experience with Spanish guns, but my buddy owns an Arrizabalaga 'Boss' 16 ga and is it ever a nice gun! Feels just as good as English to me. He also has an Arrieta tht is pretty nice too. My question to you is, which of the Spanish guns would you recommend and which ones would you avoid? Thanks, Buzz

"Carmalo, this boxlock will be round bodied, so we need it plenty wide, make it 43 millimeters wide."

"Ok, 43 millimeters, it's OK."

THe thing arrives, it is 38 mm across. Phone to Carmalo, "We said 43, and it is 38, did you send us the wrong part?"

"You mean you really want 43 millimeters? Thirty eight is not enough?"

"Yes, we really need 43"

"Oh, then send it back."

THis is the problem, not the hardening, not the steel quality, not the regulation. These guys do not communicate. Not communicating often goes with not innovating. Blindly copying two English prototypes suited them and they stopped there. The lack of curiosity, the absence of any drive to innovate, especially when compared to Italian gumakers, is amazing.

Every gunmaking area has its archetypical gun. London the sidelock, Birmingham the boxlock, Edinburgh the Round Action, Liege the B25, Saint Etienne the Darne and Ideal, Gardone the low profile Overunder, Ferlach the drilling. What is the Eibar archetype? See the problem now?

You'll hear quite a few stories about guys who order "bespoke" Spanish guns and don't get the dimensions, chokes, etc that they "bespoke". Maybe that's the communication problem mentioned above. That being said, there are a lot of happy customers of AyA, Arrieta, Garbi, Grulla etc, and moving down a notch (in price) Ugartechea. Seeing that the Brits produce only a small fraction of the guns they used to, and seeing that new Brit guns are out of the price range of most buyers, the Spanish fill a niche in the market. How well do they fill that niche? Well, they do sell quite a few guns in this country. And in Great Britain.

Every succesful business must fill a niche of sorts to survive, and I am happy that they do. I like Spain and the people and wish them the best. But I would so like to see something unique from Eibar. A gun that states its origin with pride. Aside from some spring changes to the sidelock and some angle alterations to the boxlock, there is not much else. Sure, everyone uses existing ideas to build on, ie the Boss system in OUs. But the Perazzi and the Boss are as different as chalk and cheese despite the common foundation. The Perazzi screams "Italy" and it is not the only one.

Some early, cheap inboard hammer folder might be truly representative of Eibar. They are ingenuously simple actions. One wonders how some refinement might have affected the simplicity. There would have been a niche market for that too.

I agree that the source of the poor Spanish reputation is rooted in their exports to the US from WWI through the 1970's that were made for the low end of the Market.

I believe that Spanish, Italian, and Belgian guns all have been sources of the cheapest imports to the US. In some respects Turkey and Brazil now occupy this niche in the market. As others have stated being the cheapest brings with the aura that everything from that country is cheaply made.

All the countries I have listed are capable of producing best quality. Though I admit I have not seen it from Brazil but I have little doubt it is out there.

I was over in Spain a year ago visiting gun and ammo makers. My impression was that gun sales volume has fallen quite a bit since 2008. The major shotgun makers are now concentrating a bit more on their higher end offerings where they have more margin.

The big question is the Euro situation. Within my personal memory, the cost of an AyA 53 boxlock has increased six fold. Some of that is due to inflation, some to reaching more up-market and some to the adoption of the Euro.

It will be very interesting to see what happens if Spain drops out of the Euro zone and readopts the peseta at a 50% haircut (the only way they can manage their national debt).

There really isn't an answer to that question. Spanish gun makers make guns that generally fall in a range that runs from light game guns ('carried much, shot little'), through medium game guns (driven game; 'carried little, shot much'), to competition guns (think live pigeon; made to be shot a hundred thousand plus times a year).

The first thing to do when considering a Spanish shotgun is to decide, on that continuum, what kind of gun you want. Next step is to learn the physical and mechanical characteristics of the gun you want so you can recognize your gun when you see it.

Next step is to decide on the level of ornamentation you want. The limit here is your imagination and your wallet.

The maker is largely irrelevant, as they all make the same range of guns. It may be easier to get a specific type of gun from one maker rather than another, because makers do tend to lean toward specific places in the continuum. Purely as examples, Arrieta tends to lean toward light game guns. Grulla tends to lean toward medium game guns. AyA also tends toward light game guns, but catalogs an excellent competition gun (the Mdl 56). But any maker will make a gun to any point on the continuum.

Another approach is to buy a used gun, especially in Spain right now. There are some fabulous deals to be had, given the economic situation in Spain.

But here are some examples of light, medium, and competition guns.

Light game gun by Ascensio Zabala (6.25 pounds, 12 gauge):


Ornamentation is about midrange:


Medium game gun by Martin Ugarteburu (seven and a half pound 12 gauge gun):


Ornamentation is above average, approaching top end:


Live pigeon gun by Victor Sarasqueta (eight plus pound 16 gauge):

Very plain gun:


I bought both the Zabala and the Sarasqueta here in the US, at auction, for under $300 and just under $600, respectively. I bought the Ugarteburu in Spain, for 900 Euro.

When thinking of buying a Spanish shotgun, think like you were buying a golf club. Buy the club that will best do the specific job you have in mind.

Hope this helps some.

Buzz, like the old saying goes, "Buy the gun, not the name." This is especially true with Spanish guns. Many of the top Spanish makers like AYA, Garbi, and even Arrizabalaga have built guns in the past that I would avoid. But they have all dropped their low end guns and are increasingly focusing on the higher end market.

If I were to buy a NEW gun today, I would be comfortable buying from any of the Spanish makers... AYA, Arrieta, Arrizabalaga, Grulla, Garbi, and, yes, even Ugartechea. They are all perfectly capable of producing fine doubles that can compete with the best.


On the used gun market, just use your judgement. You'll know which ones are quality pieces and which to avoid.

Adam

Some of Spain's more recent productions....

AYA #1 Deluxe 20-bore


Arrieta 803 .410-bore




AYA Imperial 12-bore


AYA Suprema


AYA Adarra


Arrizabalaga "Boss"


Arrizabalaga "Especial"


Arrieta Custom


Ugartechea 1030

Wow.
An just think of the pride someone will feel when they sez to admirers, "This ain't no cheesy Boss, it's a Arrizabalaga!"