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Joined: Feb 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
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"I researched Hunter Arms and their Crown Steel barrels in conjunction with a DGJ article I did several years ago on the Pigeon Grade Smith gun; and in the process received a copy of an old sporting goods ad dated August, 1894 from Researcher. According to that ad, the Hunter Arms Company was promoting their trademarked "new Crown Steel" barrels in conjunction with their "new Pigeon gun". People mistakenly believe that both the Smith Pigeon Grade gun and Crown Steel barrels were not introduced until 1895 because that is the first year these items were cataloged; but from this early ad we know that Hunter was already promoting both at least as early as August, 1894. Perhaps Researcher will post a photo of this early ad."
Catalogs are great at giving an idea when an item is first put out to the public. The thing that makes it tough, especially for Hunter Arms Co. catalogs, is that no one knows at what time of the year the catalog was put out. Very few have any date on them. Take the 1928-1938 catalog, the only way you know at what time frame it is from, is if you know when a particular gun was first introduced, to date that catalog.
You would think it would be in the begining of that year, and if the case, then most of their advertising in introducing a new grade would be from the 3rd or 4th quarter of the previous year, but I don't think it worked out that way. Kind of like the autos now, 2011's are already out for some.
David
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Couldn't find a place to attach this LLH 1928 Advert, which I found most interesting. 3000 tubes(various) per day & offering pattern welded. It may be old hat to many.  1928 Laurent Lochet-Habran Advert with successors as sons & daughters Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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"You would think it would be in the begining of that year, and if the case, then most of their advertising in introducing a new grade would be from the 3rd or 4th quarter of the previous year, but I don't think it worked out that way. Kind of like the autos now, 2011's are already out for some".
We now know that Hunter Arms Company introduced their Pigeon Grade gun in 1893; and that the company was using Crown steel barrels in that same year, as additional research of the shipping records from 1893 found a block of 10 Pigeon Grade guns. Although those early shipping records don't ID barrel steel type, a few months ago Phil Carr purchased a very early Smith Pigeon Grade gun; then, when checking the serial number with surviving records, discovered his gun was the first Pigeon Grade serial number ever recorded. I've since seen the gun; and although it is not in the greatest condition, the gun still has its original 30" Crown Steel barrels.
Last edited by topgun; 08/06/12 12:44 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
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Raimey,
Great find. Please note 2 things; 1928 and they are selling damascus barrels!!!
Gotta love it. It is in French, English, German, Spanish & Russian.
Pete
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,867 Likes: 201 |
Yeah, a couple pages later and proof numbers for 1913 & 1926 are given.   Quite a drop from circa 1900. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,867 Likes: 201 |
 And surely down from 1906 & 1907 numbers. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: May 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
And surely down from 1906 & 1907 numbers. Kind Regards, Raimey rse Just curious as to back then- for the Military (Kreigswaffen) production at what metric point did they differ from GrosssKalibren to KleinKalibren?? My guess- 7.65mm and below for the Klein (small) calibres, mainly fur pistolen and 9mm and upfor Gross (large) calibres, but that is just a guess.
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,867 Likes: 201 |
Edgar Allen & Co. Chicago, ILL.
Bethlehem Steel Co., South Bethlehem, Pa.
Carnegie Steel Co., Pittsburgh, Pa.
Colonial Steel Co., Pittsburgh, Pa.
Crucible Steel Co. of America, Pittsburgh, Pa
Farist Steel Co., Bridgeport, Ct
Wm. Jessop & Sons, Inc, 91 John St. New York
C. Pardee Works, Perth Amboy, NJ
Thomas Prosser & Son, 26 Platt St. NY
Vanadium Alloys Steel Co., Latrobe, Pa
West Leechburg Steel Co., Pittsburgh, Pa
Ran across the above being listed as gun-barrel sources in 1911.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430 Likes: 315 |
Thank you Raimey. What was the source please?
Interesting that in 1912 Thomas Hunter and Alfred King 'fessed up and said all their tubes came from Belgium.
Bethlehem was indeed making barrels for Winchester.
“Report on Duties on Metals and Manufactures of Metals by United States Congress.” Testimony of Thomas Hunter and W.A. King regarding the Payne-Aldrich and Dingley Tariff Bills, before the Senate Committee on Finance in 1912.
Statement of Mr. Thomas Hunter, of Fulton, N.Y., Representing The Hunter Arms Co. and Others
The Chairman: Will you state the companies you represent, Mr. Hunter?
Mr. Hunter: The Hunter Arms Co., the Baker Gun & Forging Co., Parker Bros. Gun Co., Hopkins & Allen Arms Co., A. H. Fox Gun Co., Lefever Arms Co., H.& D. Folsom Arms Co., Ithaca Gun Co., N. R. Davis & Sons, and Harrington & Richardson Arms Co.
Senator McCumber: Does the American manufacturer use the unfinished importation?
Mr. Hunter: He uses what are designated in the present bill as “gun barrels rough-bored.” That is what we import.
Senator McCumber: To what extent do you use those?
Mr. Hunter: Entirely.
Senator McCumber: You do not manufacture any of them?
Mr. Hunter: No, sir. We have no facilities for making shotgun barrels.
Senator McCumber: Does any other company make them?
Mr. Hunter: There are a few that make them for themselves only. None are made to be sold. We never have been able to buy any in this country.
The Testimony of W.A. King Representing Parker Gun Co.
Mr. King: I can speak only for our own company in so far as wages go. For instance, on the question of barrels, Mr. Hunter informed your committee that some years ago some of the manufacturers of this country attempted to make barrels. We made some barrels: we built an addition to the factory, put in some up-to-date machinery, and brought some men from Belgium to show our blacksmiths how to do it. We had to pay our blacksmiths not less than 32 cents an hour, up to 40 cents, and we gave it up, because the highest wages paid the Belgian blacksmiths for exactly the same grade of barrel are 11 cents per hour. That is what is paid to the highest-priced man employed.
Senator Smoot: In Belgium?
Mr. King: In Belgium: yes, sir. That is where all of our barrels are imported from, with the exception of our very high-grade Whipple steel barrels.
(“Whipple” is very likely a transcription error for Whitworth.)
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