doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com James Dalziel Dougall & Son info.

I have a .500 3" BPE double rifle cased with 20 accessories made by Dougall. Does anyone have info on Dougall or the records? I went on the web and could not find much out about him. I am trying to find out who the rifle was made for. Thanks!

A famous Scottish gunmaker from Glascow patentee of the famous "Lock Fast" action, patent number 1128 of 1860.

Here's more from Micheal McIntosh's excellent book, The Big Bore Rifle, page 59;

"Lefaucheux's fastening system scarcely was durable enough to handle the relatively low preassures that shotguns created much less the substantially greater stresses endemic to rifles. Systems truely stout enough for rifles did not appear until 1859 when Henry Jones patented his T-Fastener and 1860 with the appearance of James Dougall's Lock-Fast action."


Also from Mr. McIntosh's book:

With his father as J. & J. Dougall 1837 to 1841
As James D. Dougall 1841 to 1891
As J. D. Dougall & Sons 1891 to 1929

Address from 1837 to 1850 53 Argyle Arcade, Glascow Scotland
1850 to 1929 23 Gordon Street Glasgow, Scotland
1863 to 1883 59 St James Street, London
1883 to 1893 8 Bennet Street St. James

These books are also excellent resources;

"The British Shotgun" in three volumes by I. M. Crudgington and D. J. Baker
"Sidelocks & Boxlocks" by Geoffrey Boothroyd

If you need more just let us know!

Thanks! The 8 Bennet Street label indicates it was made between 1883 and 1893. Do you have any idea as to who has the ledgers (if they still exist)? The rifle is a Jones underlever hammer so I think it is not the highest quality Dougall, as I did see pictures of a Howda pistol made by Dougall that was stamped "HIGHEST" on the water table and I assume his best quality rifles were made on the Lockfast action. I have never, however, seen as many original reloading and cleaning tools with a double rifle.

Dougall's records have been lost. The fact that it's an under-lever does not exclude it from being high or even highest quality.
yes that is a hell of a lot of tools

Thanks Justin, I wanted to find out who the rifle was made for, but that is impossible as there are only 3 initials on the case lid. The rifle has about 80% engraving (which need cleaning as old varnish is on the locks and action in spots). If I can figure how to post a picture, I would show you what the rifle looks like.

Im sure everyone who watchs this site would love to see pictures.
There is an excellant tutorial,accessed through the title page to the site

[email:][/email] [email:][/email] [email:][/email]

Sorry, guess I got double or nothing!

Great!!!! Great!!!!
Thanks !! Thanks !!
Mike Mike

Sorry for nothin. Seeing that gun twice is a joy. This is a high quality Dougall

An ABSOLUTELY fantastic Dougall!!!! Thanks for sharing.

Dustin

It's a real shame that the Dougall records have been lost as he was in the "thick" of it during the early years of the developement of the breechloader.
I suggest another book written by R Gordon Cumming if you want to develope a healthy respect for the British double gun.

Wow - awesome.

What's the thing with the three spires, two gold, one green? I've never seen one of those before.

Thanks for the pics.

OWD

OWD it is a capper-decapper made by Dixon. The .500 3" case is put on one column to cap by using the lever side to side the other column decaps.Thanks for all of your comments. I will try to send more detailed pictures tomorrow with a list of the accessories.

[email:][/email]
Accessories: top left is powder container, from left turnscrew, .500 stuck case remover, turnscrew, Dixon capper/decapper, glass oil bottle, horn container with spare firing pins and pins for decapper, horn container with copper tubes for inserting into the cast bullets, wrench for removing firing pins, nose plug for bullet mold, handle for cleaning rod under barrels, bullet sizer, three different cleaning jags, .500 bullet mold, .500 3" sizing die, die case removal punch, adj. powder measure 4 to 5 drams, sizing die punch, not shown paper patch die. All accessories are original to the case and rifle.

That's sweet....all the lovely old tackle really ices up the already pretty rich cake doesn't it?...awesome stuff.
I love wood like that, black steaks over very kinda warm chestnut brown
franc

Very cool.

Thanks again,

OWD

John Wilkes entered into a partnership with Dougall around the time of the move to Bennett St, 1883. Nigel Brown's book makes the comment that 'By the 1880s, the lockfast action, including the hammerless version, would have been obsolete with the rapid advance of the top lever hammerless ejector mechanisms available.'

His book also indicates that a Mr Keith Woodvine of Mansfield, Nottinghamshire in England is a leading expert on Dougall and supplied Brown with some idea of serial number dating: 1880 - approx serial no 3780; 1884 - approx serial no 4000; 1892 - approx serial no 4230

As has been mentioned, Dougall's London records were apparently lost, along with the early John Wilkes records, when accidentally left out for collection by the dustbin men collecting refuse! In fact, John Wilkes appears to have carried on using Dougall serial numbers when he set up his own business in 1894, following Dougall's death in 1891.

Tim

Thanks guys, not the answer I was hoping for, but a lot of good info from you. The top of the case has embossed the letters
"W A F" with a partial shipping label that says Northern Railroad. The rifle appears to be little used with bright bores and no frosting or pitting. The rifling appears to be the "semi smooth" type that Holland and Holland used.
Thanks Tim for the lead on Keith Woodvine, the serial number of 4168 would indicate a date of around 1888.