doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com 12 ga. double bore rifle

A new rifle has arrived. It is a John Blissett & son [London] 12 ga double bore rifle.
1. 11.25 lbs
2. 28.125" barrels
3. 1 standing sight marked 100 yds, 3 folding. marked 150/200/250 yds.
4. 14.5" lenght of pull, front trigger.
5. 45" overall lenght.
6. Jones under lever
7. Forend held with a "key" as most M/L are.
8. 2 triggers
9. Rebounding hammers with safeties.
10. Rifling twist is 1 in 120" and a round ball of .760, [pure lead], will just slide on top of the rifling.
11. With one .125" powder card, the brass case will hold 9 drams of BP and the ball is just below its max dia. where the case could be slightly crimped to hold the ball in place.
So if anyone has any starting loads or max loads or any experience with loading for a "bore rifle", I would appreciate learning from their experience.
Having shot BP for 25+ years and rifles up to .58 Cal. and 500 BPE single shot rifles, this is my first attempt with a double.
Thank you in advance for any ideas.

Nice buy Blackhorse. I'm envious. I used to have one by Army & Navy but sold it years ago. I don't have the loads.

Do you have an idea when the gun was made?
Based upon weight only, I would say it is a 5 or 6 dram gun. You need groove diameter and cast the round balls slightly over. Going to need brass cases as I don't believe a ball that large will go into a paper/plastic case and chamber in your gun. Brass cases will have to be made to fit your chamber and the mouth of the case sized to accept your ball/bullet.

As near as I can tell from the data that I have seen, 1865/75.
I have some MagTec cases, new, that are just a little lose in the chambers un-fired. I agree that a larger ball may be needed but BP should expand a pure lead ball to groove dia. For now the .760" ball will just go into the new unfired cases.
5 to 6 Drams of BP will require a filler of wads to fill the case above a powder card that the "ball" can sit on.
Your suggested starting load was were I also figured to start trying to see what will happen with regulating a R & L @ 50 to 75 yds.
Life is a little busy now with some "court proceedings" going on but I'll let you Gentlemen know what happens as soon as I can get started "playing" with it. Thank you for your interest.

Harder to pigeon hole early guns. What is your chamber length? The likelyhood of the gun being regulated for 7 to 9 drams is low. I have a 7 dram gun with 3 inch chambers and weighs 13lbs. I also have a # of twelve bore molds I think one is quite large and was sold to me as a 10. The one original roundball mold I have casts just over .740 Post some photos when you can.

Good for you Blackhorse!!! Good luck with your first endeavor also and I, for one, can't wait to read the results.!

Sounds like a nice one Blackhorse. I have an Alex Henry 12 Bore full rifle made in 1879 that weighs over 13 lbs. The factory records show it was made for steel cored bullets or explosive shell bullets. The case length is 2 5/8" and the charge is listed as 6 3/4 drams. It is a brass case double rifle and the Alex Henry mold with it casts a .750 bullet weighing 1009 grains. It is #1 of a pair. I have a book written by the owner of the rifle describing a very long safari tracing the Livingston expedition in 1879. Much talk of elephant , buffalo and hippo shooting. Good results with the steel cored bullets, explosive shells not effective. Dr. Findlow had a great article shooting the 12 Bore rifle DGJ Autumn 2002.

Forgot to mention, I owned back in the early 70's a mint, cased Holland and Holland underlever hammer double rifle steel barreled with 26" barrels that weighed 16 1/2 lbs and was made for the Nawab of Bhopal. It was chambered for a 4 1/4" brass case and the original charge card in the oak and leather case says the charge was 10 DRAMS! Contacting Holland and Holland, they said only a double and a single 4 1/4" 10 dram 12 Bore were ever made. Couldn't afford to keep it, damn it, and sold it to Gary Herman.
Blackhorse, I would not shoot 9 drams out of that rifle. I agree with PM that is probably a round ball rifle with the slow twist and a 5 to 6 dram charge. Maybe I am wrong, but the ball goes down in the case and the case is crimped somewhat over the ball.

From the Holland and Holland case.



From the excellent Frank Findlow article Some thoughts on 12 Bores (one of the best researched bore rifle articles to date.)

Seyfried also has an article in the DGJ on 12 bore rifles. I just saw it the other day while browsing through my back issues and I think it was spring 2000.