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Joined: Jan 2002
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I picked up a gun today at a gunshow. 12 g, hammergun, european (?).
KIRNE JOSEH PESTON
FEGVER CYAROS
M KIR UDVARI
All markings in gold.
No proof marks.
I won't be able to do pics until next week.
Anyone recognize anything here yet???
Thank you!!
Bob Jurewicz

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http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=276043#Post276043


Love to see the locks and marks Bob.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Raimey,
Thank you for the reply!!! This gun is quite unique with a hammer and pin system I have never seen before.
Traveling home to NY tomorrow and will be home Mon. nite, I will take pics and post.
The engraving and gold on this gun got to me and I payed waaaay to much, but, its beautiful!!!!!!
Bob Jurewicz

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Originally Posted By: ellenbr

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=276043#Post276043


Love to see the locks and marks Bob.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


My thought, too - Joe Something-Hungarian from Pest.


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Bob:
Also it would date prior to the the official merger of Buda & Pest, and some other area, in 1873 although there was some unification in 1867. I would assume that József Kirner's address changed at that time and it would pair nicely with the pinfire & centralfire system you not. Am curious though if the back of the locks are stepped. I've asked fuhrmann to translate some text and it appears the Anton Mulacz of Wien was a whale of a lock maker and may be the source as he palled around with the likes of
Leopold Gasser, Johann Kaletzky, Stefan Mann, Wenzel Maschek, and Johann Springer. I assume that all may have offered the stepped lock variant but if we add Kirner, Lebeda & Nowak I think we may have about rounded out the list.

The title or appointment you note on the rib is:
Császári Es Királyi Udvari Puskamüves(gunsmith)-(császári és királyi)
Fegyvergyaros(armourer)

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=276543&Searchpage=1&Main=17173&Words=+k%F6niglich&Search=true#Post276543

And may look like:




Kirner remekmuve(masterpiece)

For now we may have overlooked Karoly Kiszela or Kiszela Karoly .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Here is what I can do for now.



Bob Jurewicz

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What does it read on the lock or can you discern it? Looks like an early centralfire system.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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I didn't look close enough at what you had typed or the other rib which has: M. Kir. Udvari or Magyar Királyi Udvari

Or Supplier to someone court.
I think this to be the German version -
königlich ung. hof büchsenmacher & Waffenfabrikant


Kirner's royal court dubbing by Prince Rudolf may have been in 1871.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Left - KIRNER
Right - PESTON
Rib - KIRNER JOSEF PESTEN
Left barrel band - M KIR UDVARI
Right barrel band - FEGYVERDYAROS
all in gold.
Bob Jurewicz

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Here is what the inscription translates to approximately. It is in Hungarian. "Kirner, Pest, Kirner Josef of Pest, Royal Court Armourer. It is likely a royal gun from the Austrian Hungarian empire.
Here is another example.
http://www.msgunowners.com/t22145-joseph-kirner-shotgun-help

Here is an approximate value if you have an acount. This gun was made for Franz Josef I.
http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/hahn-doppelflinte,-josef-kirner-budapest-aus-de-1-c-0c90384348
Nice find very cool gun!

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