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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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I have found some of the proof marks by searching other threads, but would appreciate any information you can provide on this gun or the seller.

In addition to the visible stamps, there is an RS in an oval followed by a 7 on the bottom of the right tube. What is the "chicken" with the CGH in the circle.

Thanks for your help.







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Last edited by skeettx; 05/09/12 11:11 PM.

USAF RET 1971-95 [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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Don't know on the ole Chicken but I would suspect Belgian if not Haenel as noted above.

The *H is either from Haenel or one of it's craftsmen(Helmuthhauser).

It was proofed in Suhl post 1912 so I would assume a concern with a Suhl address for the listed maker. I don't know if Gustav Rätzel survived WWI. He had a Berlin address like Berlin W.8 and had ties to Zella-Mehlis, possibly thru a Frank fella. This Z-M connection might account for the Haenel effort on the tubes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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For some reason I had in my mind that Carl Gottlieb Hänel concern was in Zella-Mehlis but that is incorrect and it was in Suhl and that would have been the address supplied for the Suhl proof effort. Possibly it was that the firm was associated with Carl Wilhelm Aydt and the target arms, of which many originated in Zella-Mehlis or were proofed there. Anyway many of the Hänel tubes were designed for the Stiegele bullets and some give that the tubes were sourced, which is of course is possible but up till the late 1920s the *H stamp is seen on many Hänel tubes.

Kind Regards

Raimey
rse

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Thank you both for the information.

Are CG Haenel and Carl Gottlieb Hanel (I don't know how to put the .. over the a) the same person?

Any ideas on the RS in an oval?

To me, the CG Haenel/Carl Gottlieb Hanel makes sense on the CGH in the circle with the chicken.

The tops of the barrels are marked Gustaz Ratzel on the right tube and Berlin W8 on the left.

With the lack of the Berlin address for Gustav after WW1, and *H on the tubes, would it be reasonable to date the gun no later than 1920?

Thanks again for your time and knowledge.

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Same as in 1840 Carl Gottlieb Hänel(hold "alt" then press "132" on the number pad & release) hung out his gunmaking shingle with the C.G. Hänel name. I would guess it was made post 1912 - 1919. I don't think the serial number to be in that of Hänel's target arms. The preponderance of evidence tilts the scale toward Robert Schlegelmilch for the RS and of course there are a few other possibilities. But he would have knitted the tubes together. The RS mechanic was sourced by Lindner and has effort that parallels Jean Falla, William Ford, Gebhard Helmuthhauser, Louis & Wilhelm Kebler, etc. I would not doubt that the *H and the Gothic H on the tubes to belong to Gebhard Helmuthhauser. The *H & RS stamps cease by late 1920s as I think Robert Schlegelmilch closed his shop in 1924.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


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