doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Jozsef Kirner, Jr. Pesten

Any of you swift in German might extract some nuggets of info from below:





from: http://www.biographien.ac.at/oebl/oebl_L/Lebeda_Anton-Vinzenz_1823_1890.xml

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Does anyone have any pictures of the inside/internals/backside of a stepped lock? I'm very curious about how they differ mechanically from the common back action lock.

Not yet. I did have plans to inspect the double in the 1st post but someone wanted it far more that I did. But that image is what pretty much began this whole tangent.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Even his pistols had stepped locks:




And even Gastinne-Renette sourced him for a brace of the stepped variety percussion pistols.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=275369#Post275369



Maybe this pattern will catch Drew's eye.

Hopefully someone does and will stick them up.

Baumgarten is supposed to pleasure us with some images of a Jaeger rifle from Suhl. We surmise that the novel lock may have added structural integrity to the sporting weapon.

Frantisek/Franz Novak/Nowak kaiserlich - k�niglich( Cs�sz�ri Es Kir�lyi Udvari Puskam�ves ) H�fb�chsenmacher of Praze must have hung out his gunmaking shingle in the mid to late 1820s as from 1829 to 1836 he attended Bohemian Exhbitions and received silver and bronze medals, with a bronze medal being at the Vienna Exhibition in 1835. Then in 1844 in Berlin he received a bronze medal for his effort on his wares. He designed and developed some sort of safety, or mechanism with safety features, that led to at least one of his awards. The firm employed around 30 craftsmen, which increased to say 3 dozen by the mid 19th century, and sourced tubes from Bohemia as well as Liege in order to provide upper rung sporting weapons to clients in the Empire, Poland, Russia, France and England. He was known for either sourcing or fabricating some sort of tubes, B�rschrohr und Scheibenrohr - 2 terms that have escaped me for now. Either he or a Gabriel Novak, who I guess to be his son, was a source of target pistols with special designed triggers.

It is possible that Ferdinand Ridler/Riedler of Spital on the Pyhrn(Spital am Pyhrn, Austria) could have been the Bohemian tube steel source for Frantisek Novak & other Praha craftsmen. Ferdinand Ridler is noted as being the 1st to roll his own as well as introducing pattern welded tubes to the empire. In 1845 a presentation of his home grown and rolled pattern welded tubes, which were asthetically easy on the eyes as well as durable being on par with any other craftsmen, led to an award. He was also know for his edged weapons.

Jozsef Kirner may have sourced Ferdinand Ridler as they used both local, within the empire I would say, in addition to sourcing the craftsmen in Liege for their multibarrel sporting weapons. Jozsef Kirner is noted as offering a vierling, which he easily could have sourced from A.V. Lebeda. The concern employed 20 craftsmen to complete sporting weapons for clients in England, Russia, Poland, France & Turkey. In the 1830s A.V. Lebeda could not find a source near Praze to meet his demand for tubes so straightaway he developed a soucing line to Liege.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Many thanks to furhmann for the images and all the effort on the translation of the Anton Vinzenz Lebeda info docs.

Yes, another grainy image but it will have to suffice for now.



"The muzzleloader with percussion lock constitutes the main body of his work, and his successful 1828 invention of the so-called Prague boxlock was often copied in the continent and in England. At the Bohemian Country Trade Fair in Prague (1829) Lebeda received a silver medal, and on 22.12.1830 he received a further privilege for a �hunting gun with a safety catch�."

"Cap lock for percussion guns, patent 1828; Hunting gun with a safety catch, patent 1835." - Ref. for translated 1965 Austrian document.

Translated from the doc and I wonder if this is December 22nd 1830 safety catch? Also what might be the "Prague boxlock"?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey and I were just talking about stepped locks and such last night and I had reminded him that my Christoph Funk (Suhl) had stepped locks very much like the Lebeda pistols. As to the thought that the longer than typical lock plates seen on the Jozsef Kirner Pesten (1st gun) were to add reinforcement to the grip, seeing it again this morning they don't appear that much longer than standard issue back action locks so who knows? Again, I like the ornate profile. I'll add that I sure am enjoying the fine examples being shown on this thread.

Regards,

Buchseman

Here are some pictures of the Christoph Funk jaeger rifle that Raimeys mentions:







Regards,

Buchseman

My feeling is that these stepped lockplates are a fashion thing, of a certain period. And up to now I have only seen percussion this way.

The Prague boxlock may be this:


Regards,
fuhrmann

Thanks fuhrmann. Can you tell what the letters are under the crown atop the tubes: "AL", "LB", etc.? Also thanks for pointing out that B�rschrohr und Scheibenrohr - stalking rifle and target rifle. Were the tubes that much different?

Baumgarten, thanks for the effort and are the initials MB on the component for M. Baumgarten?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse