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Joined: Mar 2012
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I have a 12 gauge side by side made by Robert Jones of Manchester Street, Liverpool England. Here is a photo of the proof marks:



From a PDF of proof marks I got off the Internet, the marks indicate:
The crown with NP below indicates it is "Definitive Nitro Proofed for All Guns" and the crown with BV below means it's a "View Mark" (whatever that means) and both have been in use since 1904. The crown with BNP below indicates it "Definitive Nitro Proof for Barrel and Action and has been in use since 1954. All marks come from the Birmingham proof house.

Now from these is it possible to date the gun? For instance was the gun reproofed after 1954 or were all the proof marks added at the same time? Also, any idea what the other markings mean?
Thanks
Alan

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It was re-proofed after 1954 as you say but for some reason they ommitted the Crown over R mark to indicate that. Lagopus.....

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It was reproofed in 1982. The mark at the lower left is the Birmingham date mark. The "HB" indicates 1982 and the "1" indicates the seniority of the examiner, "1" being most senior. Note that from 1975 to 1984 the date mark used was a circle and not the crossed swords.

As Lagopus stated there does not seem to be a reproof mark.


Regards - Ian Forrester
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Why are there 3 seperate stamps indicating nitro proof?




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Original proof at "13" or .710 . Reproof at .719 . No need for the reproof stamp when the proof marks supercede the earlier ones .The original proof bore both NP and the words NITRO PROOF . LOoking at the photo I would suggest getting the lumps checked as the green gunge around the braze can be a indicator of failing braze.

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Ian
I didn't notice the HB over 1 inside a circle. I assumed (incorrectly) that the stamps on both sides of the lug were the same. Is it possible to determine the original proofing of the barrel? What does the 12 over a C inside a diamond, the 13, and the .719" refer to?
Thanks
Alan
OBTW, you said there doesn't seem to be a reproof mark and yet you indicated that the HB over 1 inside a circle says it was. Confused.

I found this from the Birmingham Proof House website:


I assume my gun was proofed sometime between 1925 and 1954 as the marks corresponds with the ones used from 1925 up to 1954?

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Proofed prior 1925 but after 1904 . 12 in the diamond indecates the bore size as in it is chambered for 12 bore cartridges .

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Thank you gunman/ER..I did not know that there was that bit of redundancy on the original proofs.




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English Rebel, 13 indicates that the original bore diameter was .710. .719 is the bore diameter as reproofed. As gunman says, the original proof is in the 1904-25 period. This is a bit tricky, but 1925-54, the gun would show chamber length. This one does, but the chamber length stamp of 2 1/2" and the 3 tons stamp are so similar that it's obvious they're from the same set of proof stamps, which are the later ones. So with no chamber length stamp among the original marks, that means it does not fall in the 25-54 perid.

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One note on the 13. It has been stated that the 13 indicates an original dia of .710. this is not entirely correct. In that era bores were simply checked with a series of plug gages & marked according to the largest one which would enter to a depth of 9" from the breech.
A 13 gauge plug diameter is .710" while next step up of 13/1 was .719". When this gun was proofed it accepted the 13 plug but not the 13/1. Actual diameter could have been anywhere in betwen.
The .719 mark at the re-proof does as I understand it mean an actual diameter of .719" by measurement. It may not have taken much honing at all to go from the 13 to the .719" bore.This may well have been done in preping for the re-proof.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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