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Joined: Dec 2001
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Here is my favorite C Grade style, made only around 1906. There were at least two other C Grade styles to come later. I like all of the early and modern Fox guns.






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Nice! Bobby

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Wild Skies, I am not sure who finally bought the 28 gauge you linked us to, but Tony was considering buying it back. Chances are that he did.

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Originally Posted By: Brittany Man
JMC,

I looked at (and regret that I did not purchase)a used 20 ga CSMC CE at the 09 Vintagers shoot in MD. This gun had the flat back action & I was told the customer who ordered the gun wanted it exactly like the 20 ga CE on page 134 of McIntosh's book except for having 2 triggers. I was looking for a 16 ga & ordered a 16 ga from CSMC at the shoot. They would not build me one with a flat back action though that is what I wanted.
My point is that they have built at least one gun with a flat back action in the past & with the current cnc machineing of the actions I don't see why it would be difficult to do so.
That particular CE 20 ga was one of the nicest CSMC Fox guns I've seen & I don't remember the serial # or when it was built.


When that flat back action gun was built (mid to late 90's?), the frames and other main parts were investment cast. The scallop design was cast into the frames. To make the flat back frame, the scallop was filled by (TIG?) welding it in on each side and finishing the frame then as any other.

There may have been another,,or two actions modified like that for customers, but I'm not really sure.


Since that time I belive CSMC has switched from investment cast to other method(s) of producing the frames and major parts.
Wire EDM and other sorts of CNC machining techniques I'd guess.
I'm not a machinist and don't know what it takes to change or stop and delete certain features from being cut with that type of machinery.
But that's what I know of it.

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I was at CSMC today to pick up my RBL, was shooting the breeze with Lou who introduced me to a man named Lucas who has built every Fox that CSMC has ever produced except two (vacations). The comment earlier about CSMC having a high turnover of smiths would seem to be irrelevant when considering their Foxes.

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If it's true that Mr.Lucas has built every CSMC Fox but 2, CSMC must be the only gun maker in the word that has one man build one type of gun all by himself.

Responsibility for the finished product or final assembly & finishing possiblty but "build" I seriously doubt.

I'm not doubting that Lou told you that but just think about that statement a little bit & read a few books about how high end shotguns are produced.

The comment made to me regarding turnover of gunsmiths at CSMC was speculation by a very informed person during a discussion of why the CSMC Foxes & CSMC sidelock O&Us seem to vary considerably in build quality. Possibly he was wrong about the Fox guns at least & Mr. Lucas is simply overwhelmed by all that work!

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I would love to see CSMC offer the engraving style found on Eisenlohr's No. 35 CSE (shown on p. 20 and elsewhere in MM's Fox book). That is one elegant shotgun and I wonder if that engraving pattern woudl take less time than the deep engraving style CSMC is offering as its "Special" design.

I gave some serious thought to buying a CSMC Fox but couldn't quite justify the investment - if they offered one with that CSE engraving, I would have to buy it.


Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Doverham,

I agree with you on the CSE. The most elegant of all Foxes IMHO.

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I'm sure if you asked, Tony would have your CSMC Ansley H. Fox shotgun engraved exactly like old No. 35. All it takes is liberal application of dollars.

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Originally Posted By: Researcher
I'm sure if you asked, Tony would have your CSMC Ansley H. Fox shotgun engraved exactly like old No. 35. All it takes is liberal application of dollars.


Well almost.
If CSMC doesn't think they can do something well, then they will not do it. I wanted my initials on the trigger guard but blended into the engraving pattern and not in block or any other separate script. Lou didn't feel they could succeed. I commissioned another engraver with a degree in Art to complete a pattern that I could forward to CSMC. I had previously used the engraver for a small job which he did very well in 1930's style. Anyway, he never did the pattern and when when it was time to do the engraving, I had to go with standard trigger guard for the DE Special which is very nice anyway.

The comment

"The comment made to me regarding turnover of gunsmiths at CSMC was speculation by a very informed person during a discussion of why the CSMC Foxes & CSMC sidelock O&Us seem to vary considerably in build quality. Possibly he was wrong about the Fox guns at least & Mr. Lucas is simply overwhelmed by all that work!"

is what makes the Internet such a poor resource for facts. A second hand report of a 'speculation' by a person that in no way has access to the facts to offer an objective assessment.
I have been handling every CSMC gun I could get my hands on since I first met Tony at a CADA Show in Chicago in the early 1990's. They have all been very nicely made and the only significant variability I have found is the engraving and figure of the wood. Some I liked and some I didn't like. This is not 'build quality'.
If you obsess over things than you never will get a gun built to your specifications because no one makes the perfect gun.-Dick
BTW
"if they offered one with that CSE engraving, I would have to buy it."

No one is going to offer you anything. If you want that pattern, call CSMC and ask for it. I was very specific in what engraving I wanted on my Fox and except for the initials, it's exactly as I wanted.

Last edited by Dick_dup1; 03/14/12 11:53 AM.
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