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Joined: Feb 2004
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I'm pretty sure comparing an original Fox to a CSM Fox is not a worthwhile endeavor. Kinda like trying to compare a 55 Vette to a 2012 Carbon Corvette. Which is better? ...depends.

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Good point, Chuck. My preference as a dreamer would be for the original. Others are like those who buy the new iPads as marvels of technology (when all of them are magic to me).

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"I'm pretty sure comparing an original Fox to a CSM Fox is not a worthwhile endeavor. Kinda like trying to compare a 55 Vette to a 2012 Carbon Corvette. "

I would agree that only similarity is 4 wheels and a steering wheel for the Corvette comparison but the comparison to a Fox made in the early 19th century and a CSMC Fox is ridiculous.
Without CSMC markings on the firearm, one Fox will look exactly as another Fox and function the same. I haven't been into any Fox internally but I certainly think the CSMC Fox would be much better finished. 20th century engravers are long gone so if you want a Fox engraved by one of those guys, you have to find one on the secondary market.
If you want a finely engraved gun to you specifications as one could have made for you in the 20th century, then CSMC offers as a fine a game gun made anywhere in the world at a very competitive price and made in the USA where one can actually communicate with the maker or fairly easily go see your gun.
For me it was no-brainer for a 16 gauge Fox DE Special because there were only about 60 made in the 20th century and the chances of finding one made to my specs, new condition, are zero.
After collecting Supers and Model 21's for 20+ years, I know the pitfalls (not all, as there are always new scams out there) of purchasing used guns and the time and effort required. I decided that It wasn't worth the expenditure of energy/time because one, I couldn't find what I wanted and two, I could order the same gun made today from CSMC and in fact made much better. It's really time to get over this prohibition that some seem to have against CSMC Fox's and Model 21's.
There is a whole new generation of buyers out there that are enjoying these CSMC guns of which I have joined.-Dick

Last edited by Dick_dup1; 03/11/12 01:44 PM.
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I believe all AH Fox shotguns were produced in the 20th Century....


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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Dick,
The debate is all about intangibles like "soul", "character", etc..

I appreciate all that too. Like you, I would love to have one of those original DE's in perfect condition that just happen to be made to my dimensions, and in the gauge I prefer. Then, I would like to buy it for the price that was somewhat less than the cost of a new fully loaded pickup too. Lots of wishin'.

So, I think I'd do exactly as you did.

Regards
Chuck

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I guarantee after 10 to 50 years of use that a CSMC Fox will have all the soul and character of the originals with similar use.Nothing nicer than a well used and maintained high grade shotgun to feast the eyes on.

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We agree, Chuck and RH.
Thanks-Dick
BTW for point of information, the CSMC Fox DE Special is an uncatalogued Grade. The engraving is deeper cut. I noticed this engraving style in the catalog and asked Lou about it and then ordered the DE Special engraving for an additional few $$.
I've seen one or two CSMC Fox's with this engraving, mostly in a bright finish, The one I have is case colored, subtle but up close very nice.

Last edited by Dick_dup1; 03/11/12 01:51 PM.
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The early lightly cut DE engraving pattern is most pleasing to my eye.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
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Why do people feel the need to use the terms '20th Century', '19th Century' etc.? Too many hours spent watching Antique Roadshow, I guess.

1) It sounds snobby
2) It forces the listener to then convert the reference to real
years.

It's not hard to simply say "1800's" "1900's" etc.

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Originally Posted By: SKB
The early lightly cut DE engraving pattern is most pleasing to my eye.


I like the early C and D lighter engraving as well. If I were to do a custom Fox or order a CSM, it would be in the style of the early engraving.

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