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so would that be a matador

The blued frame AYA tens are marked "Matador". The case colored tens we refer to as the "lightweights" are not marked "Matador", but when sold were marketed as Matadors as I recall. The case colored guns are very elegant when in good condition. The 27" Beretta gun being offered on the internet now seems like a good buy. What's that about a "laminated" stock. I requested pictures but have not received them.

so how would the matador compare to a berretta merkel or a neumann as to quality durabilt and all

My AYA 10 (Matador? not marked), has 2 triggers, color case hardening, 32" bbls, 3 1/2" chambers. It looks like a big AYA #4 boxlock to me. It weighs 10.5 lbs.
I'll take some photos later and post.

I agree that the Beretta 10s are great guns. They usually sell for under $2000 when they show up. The problem is, they don't show up often. aka DGM had one a few years back he was trying to sell. I don't know if it got sold or stuffed back into the save. He'll chime in with an update.

Joe

I've had both the Beretta and a Neumann/Silvers over the years. Have since parted with both. Bought both of them at different times from the Hamburg Cabelas. Bought the Beretta for under $1K and the Neumann for $1200, which are great values. Unfortunately, the blue book tells people to sell the Neumanns for $3K, but I've never seen one sell for that. Cabelas had two at the price for a long time, then marked them down under $1500 to move them. Both are good quality, but the Neumann definately seemed to be the better built of the two. It's a first rate boxlock and nicely balanced. 10 gauge bismuth has been discontinued, but you can still find it occasionally on the auction websites and Albrights gunshop in Easton MD used to have a good supply. RST now makes some as well. Chambermates will allow you to shoot 12 gauge ammo, and some of the SXS shoots permit using them as well.

Here are some photos of a recently sold Neumann: http://www.cabelas.com/european-shotguns-neumann-boxlock-10-ga.shtml