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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194 |
This is a shotgun project that has been in the shop for 7-8 yrs. I finally got off my duff and wrote a inquiry to the Univ. of Glasgow, Scotland, regarding this old gun, after about a 3 week wait I got a replay. Their records show that #18903 was sold to Col. Anderson in 1897 for L25.00. Now I have to decide if I want to spend L40.00 to get a digital copy of the ledger page that will show the maker, etc. This is a really neat old gun, The barrels show London black powder proof, bores have very light straight rifling, Fluid steel. The rib has 2 flip-up express sight leafs and engraved on the rib is "The Jungle Gun". The action is Anson & Deeley, double under bolts and there is a bight on the Dollshead providing a third fastener .Bolstered firing pins, double sears, hung top and bottom. (see photo), all internal parts are highly polished, really nice workmanship. The gun has a broken buttstock, missing rear tang screw, broken trigger guard and safety toggle, etc. Would this gun be considered a double rifle or a shot and ball or a combination gun? Would like to see a catalog of that time period to see how it was promoted/described. I thought it was different enough to share with the board. http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/stockwork/018-2.jpghttp://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/stockwork/016-1.jpghttp://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/stockwork/015-1.jpghttp://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/stockwork/014-1.jpg
Last edited by Jerry Mouer; 02/21/12 07:55 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
A nice ball and shot gun worthy of restoration if the bores are still good built on the desirable screw grip action. I like it!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
Yours was a princess compared to my Plain Jane beauty 1913 12 gauge with good case colours which university letter says sold to so-and-so for six pounds, six shillings!
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,574 Likes: 87
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,574 Likes: 87 |
The one that I owned was straight rifling until the last 6 inches where it started a very very slow twist. Check again and see if there's a change in the last 6 inches or so.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 |
Sounds like you have a gun worthy of restoration. I for one would like to see more pictures.
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
Jerry, if you will add [img] before your picture stings and [/img] after each of the strings, they will show up and I will delete my post. No spaces    
Last edited by skeettx; 02/21/12 04:33 PM.
USAF RET 1971-95 ![[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]](http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57865_80x60.jpg)
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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SKB please enlighten me on the "Screw Grip" action and how you can tell from the photo that it is a screw grip.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866 |
Also has intercepting sears which reflects the high quality of the action.
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid,than open it and confirm.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
I got one of these for a friend in Texas last year, cased with all the loading tools etc. Plain but well made and a 'poor man's Paradox' if you like.
We will be playing with it to see how it patterns and then we may try and kill some hogs with it - he is talking about taking it to Zambia when we go next year to hunt in the bush. Could be fun. If you struggle with bullets, let me know, I'll see if I can make you some with the mold we have.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742 |
Did it belong to Col. Anderson the author?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194 |
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 190
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 190 |
I would very much like to learn more about these guns.
For example, it might be interesting to find out how these guns' applications and performance compared to those of Paradox guns.
It sounds like the "slow twist" might be one that would be appropriate for round balls. Somehow, I have always believed that "ball and shot" were smoothbores.
Might I be correct in assuming that the rear sight leaves are "zeroed" for 50 and 100 yards?
I take it that the mould casts something other than a round ball.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194 |
The "Jungle Gun" is back together, still needs a bunch of cosmetic work as you can see from the pictures. Mark Beasland (MBAB) did really superb job rebuilding the safety. I would like to take it out to the range and see if it will put a slug in a pie plate, better yet one from each barrel. I need some guidance to work up a safe load. The chamber is 2 9/16", bore is .724" land to land and .729" grove to grove. Bores are excellent, no pitting.       Sorry for the double pics, this is my third try at getting this post up with the pics. Any help wit a load out there? Thanks, Jerry
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,123 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,123 Likes: 198 |
Jerry, maybe smallbore could send you a few bullets to test. This screw grip appears to be the one used on my pair of 1911 sidelock ejector Evans guns, if you would care to look at them and compare. The linked thread about screw grips is very interesting reading, except for the missing linked pictures . Bill Murphy
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,528 Likes: 80
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,528 Likes: 80 |
Another nice old Webley . See the safe has been removed .
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 528
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 528 |
Though not a H&H, you do have a paradox and judging by the bores, it is worth a significant investment in restoration. Getting one to regulate is a fairly arcane science. Bell and Seyfried have written articles. For God's sake please do not put a full house slug through it. Probably the simplest place to start would be to order a box of Holland and Holland paradox ammunition which is in production and see how those rounds regulate. My William Evans shoots Seyfried's formula into a two-inch L/R L/R at a hundred yards which is better than most double rifles. I took it to Namibia in '08 and it was decisive on everything from warthog to sand grouse. Restore it and you will have a very special thing.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194 |
Gunman, I can't deterimine the maker from the copy of records I rec'd from Univ. of Glasgo. How do you know it was made by Webly?
The H & H Paradox 12 bore requires a minimum bore dia. of .735". I,ll have to do more reaseach.
Yes, the rifling does start a slow twist about 6" from the muzzle.
Thanks, Jerry
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,528 Likes: 80
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,528 Likes: 80 |
Webley screw grip top lever ,Webley intercepting sears . Webley style safe , which has been removed [in the picture shown of the gun with the stock off ] ,mounted at the rear of the trigger plate box .It looks like a Webley and Webley made many many guns like this for many different "makers".
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194 |
Gunman, Thank You.
The safety pendulum is repaired, that's why the gun was dismanteled for so long. All mechanics work smoothly.
With a maxiom bore size of .729", what size ball would I use? Would I paperpatch it in the shell? Paper or brass shell?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,737
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Posts: 1,737 |
Jerry - Please listen to Mr Taylor's advice. No doubt you already know this, but to reiterate, you have something really very special.
I'll only add that the work you've done on it thus far seems first rate.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Posts: 622 |
I wouldn't try the Holland paradox rounds in this gun until you establish the bullet diameter this gun requires.
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Posts: 624
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 624 |
The second edition of "Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright has a chapter on shooting the Paradox type guns.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
The bullet mould is now in Texas - I'm sure we could send you a few when we get around to making some.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,123 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,123 Likes: 198 |
Bringing this thread to the top for Granger.
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