doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Moved topic

King, while I hope you are wrong about the demise of hunting, I could not let the rest of your comment pass without noting, in my opinion, the truth of what you say.

America is the light on the hill for the rest of the world, Canada included. It is a remarkable place filled with remarkable people. Unique in it's commitment and attempts throughout it's history to throw off the yoke of oppression and give every citizen opportunity. The world has never seen something similar. I believe you are absolutely correct when you suggest it's citizens would never defer to misguided authority.

It IS the people, not the words on paper, that makes America great.

Canvasback and King: Your kind words about America and our citizens were much appreciated. I can't speak for all Americans, but personally I am very fond of the Canadian people and I always enjoy visiting Canada and its' pristine wilderness. I am thankful your government gives me that opportunity. Canada and the UK are the best of America's allies and I believe and hope most Americans understand that.

[quote=King Brown: Whatever Dave does with this dissolving phantasmagoria, my hope is that there's a cleanup of all the political partisanship and slogans, jingoism, imputing of motives and citizenship, and it's packed it off to another place on the board. I'm here to learn about doubles. I don't give a tinker's dam about someone's father or politician unless it relates to gun provenance or some activity in the shooting sports. [/quote]

King, the second sentence of your last post goes to the heart of why some of us are being so passionate about keeping gun control topics front and center. We don't wish to reach a point where the rights we currently enjoy are but a memory in 25 years or so. The only way to insure that does not happen is for more of us to become involved and remain engaged. None of us is perfect in that regard. I can do better. All of us can do better. Simply buying guns and shells and hunting licenses and even wearing an NRA hat will not get it done. Pretending there is no threat in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is stupid. There is no other, more polite, word for it. Sorry, but history proves my point. I harbor no illusions that we will ever get 40 million gunowners to act in one united front and send gun grabbing politicians packing to a place from which they will never again attempt to take us on. But it is our perceived weakness and apathy that gives them the heart and courage to keep picking away at us. Canvasback's excellent examples illustrate the foolishness of waiting until we are stuck in a hole. The first step in getting out of a hole is to stop digging.

I hate to keep dissecting your prior posts, but I have further reduced the one quoted here to illustrate my previous point. You have been at the forefront with several others to keep this forum pure DoubleGun. But you have strayed into Islamophobia, Rednecks, Anti-Semitism, Catholics and Birth Control, and various other partisan politics areas. Personally, I have no problem with this, but it is not me who has implored Dave to not allow it to happen. I personally enjoy a little heated discussion occasionally. It gets the blood flowing and makes you think. If I allow myself to get overly passionate and make a rash or incorrect statement, I have no problem stepping back and apologizing for it. No big deal... no blood shed. Some here act like having these sidebar discussions will degenerate this BBS and cause its' eventual collapse. They act like we are sucking up too much internet bandwidth or something and acting like that wouldn't happen if these topics were tucked away in Misfires.

I have been simply shooting holes in those falsehoods whenever I can. We have had these discussions here in the past and DoubleGunshop.com did not collapse. Never did this type of discussion threaten to dominate this BBS. Even the fact that this one has now dragged on for 25 pages would hardly be noticeable if those who claim disinterest would simply not click on it, or more inexplicably, keep coming back to it. Those who want it to go away are as guilty as I am at keeping it alive. There has been infighting and bickering and nobody shed any blood. I have been insulted and mischaracterized and have not lost a minute of sleep over it. Anyone who has ought to grow a set.

This is not SewingWithNancyBoy.com... we are mostly grown men who shoot guns and get into testosterone fueled discussions here, in school, at work, at hunting camps, and everywhere we go. We pound ourselves with the recoil of 100 rounds at trap or skeet, and pick up the empties so we can reload them and pound ourselves again. We walk miles over rough terrain following dogs in pursuit of a few birds. We have guys here who pick themselves up and push on despite cancers and chemo and radiation or a dozen other debilitating difficulties. Did you happen to read Jim Legg's last posthumous post that was submitted by his daughter? His last words to us confirmed what I had always suspected. He told us how much he enjoyed his time with us, and it confirmed that he actually enjoyed the verbal sparring matches he participated in. I admired that admission. And I laugh at the mock indignation that is being tossed about here in an attempt to suppress or hide gun control discussions.

I have been buying,selling and enjoying collecting firearms for more years than I care to remember. I can remember back to the days when firearms ownership was not an issue in this great country until some unfortunate incidences brought it to the forefront. Most of the myths postulated by the anti's have been dispelled over he years. Unfortunately they were given "mainstream reporting at the time and are still believed to be factual by many.
49 of the 50 States now have some form of conceal carry(Illinois being the sole exception). In each case as the legislation was being put in place the antis screamed that there would be "blood running in the streets". This of course hasn't happened and the net result has been a dramitic reduction in the crime rate across the board.
Going back to the basics:
I started this discussion to point out an effort by the antis to protest Starbucks policy of permitting armed customers to stop in for a coffee in their shops. This enlighted policy is intolerable to the antis and I believe it's important to bring their efforts out into the light. But NOT in some offbeat area but in the forefront of this forum I fully intend to continue these efforts and will continue to do so unless I'm instructed otherwise.
The detractors haven't posted one viable reason to move such discussions elsewhere. All they keep doing is to try to change the subject and get a "political" discussion going in the hope the thread will be shut down.
Jim

Geez, must be a conspiracy among the detractors.

What was that about proving the point of your opposition??

Jim there have been many many viable, reasonable, and rational points posted why we want the gun-rights discussions in another section. Go to the advanced search function, search the Misfires section for the key word "Kenyan". Tens of reasons show up right there.

The best reason is that we don't want all that partisan political discussion and it's derivitives in this forum.

Keith your ability to type long paragraphs repeating yourself does not make you right, just persistent.

If we go by members posting on this thread and not by dozens of paragraphs it looks like it is only you and Jim that want that discussion here compared to many that don't.

Keith the deleted thread was neither started by me nor did I have the last post on it. You state as fact my motive. How did you know that. Did I PM you or email you my motive.? It was not what you stated. ed wrote up a new set of rules for this section of the BBS and, like you and Jim, was trying to impose them upon the rest of us without Dave's blessing or some kind of policy vote by the members.




Jim you repeated yourself. I repeat, he already has:



I think we ought to have a separate section for the gun-rights discussions. I mean separate from the Misfires. I thnk it will get mucked up just like it does in the Misfires section but at least we will have given Second Amendment discussions a place with a respectful title on this board. The posters there would have decide if they were going to conduct themselves with the courtesy and respect Second Amendment discussions deserve.

Best,

Mike

Oh Mike, Mike, Mike, you most certainly did PM me about the ed1 thread. And guess what? I have not deleted it from my messages. Your first PM to me about it was on 11/30/11 at 10:43PM, and your follow up came on 12/4/11 at 7:43AM. The title header on your PM is "My Tussle With Ed". Am I ringing any bells here? I could copy and paste it here, but why cause you the embarrassment you've tried to cause me? I can't say who initiated the thread, because it is gone from the archives and nobody who participated shows a post being made in that thread from the "users posts" section. One thing I will state with certainty is that you absolutely dominated that thread. You had multiple, long, repetitive, posts. And not one of them had anything to do with the subject matter that the DoubleGun BBS is supposed to contain if we are following the rules. You did in fact state your motive to convince Dave to permanantly suspend Ed within your posts. You can deny it all you want but there are too many folks, especially Ed, who have not forgotten. So please don't come here saying I was imputing your motives. I did strongly agree with what you were saying and offered my support in that thread. That is why you PM'd me to thank me. Your welcome.

Now onward to your second attempt to bring the politics pertaining to birther threads which ran in Misfires into this forum. You keep saying you don't want that stuff here, but it is you and only you who is attempting to bring it here. Nobody else. What are you trying to pull? I almost rose to the bait the first time but I decided to let it go knowing it would come back again. And well, guess what?... you brought it back again... Proof positive that you, one of the main opponents to political topics that have nothing to do with Double Guns, is trying his damnedest to get those topics rolling here. Nice try. Better luck next time. To paraphrase one of my now deceased mentors, I'm too old of a cat to get screwed by kittens.

My ability to write long paragraphs repeating myself may not make me right. Nor does repeating yourself make you right. But it should be now apparent to all that you are saying one thing and doing another in this thread. Pious preaching means little when you are yourself doing what you've told the congregation not to do.

I admit, I am persistant, as are you. This back and forth banter could go on until one of us has fingers so arthritic we can no longer type. I have said I always enjoyed your posts whether they were strictly on topic or not. I agree with 99.9% of everthing I've read from you. We obviously will never agree on this one issue. Big deal. I wouldn't mind if it ended because I have better things to do and I'm sure you do as well.

Whether gun right topics are allowed to remain here in the future is entirely up to our host. I think they ought to remain here because they are important to our continued right to own and shoot doubles. Alternately, I also like Canvasbacks suggestion that Gun Rights rise to the top of the menu, which apparently has worked well in the Canadian GunNutz forum. I think we could police ourselves, with gentle reminders from time to time, and have a useful resource and dialog.

That said, I'm ready for a cease-fire and truce whenever everybody else is. I'm not close to running out of gas, but we've all had our fun and we've made our points. Name a date, name a time, and I'll even let you have the last word. It would be nice if we could end this as friends, or at least friendly.

I have forgotten both what and that I had PMed you on the ed thread. Please feel free to post it here. I looked through my PMs to see if I had PMd you before I posted that I hadn't PMd you bit I didn't spot it. I don't have enough PMs that I have had to delete any yet. I stand corrected.

Edit. This is the PM I sent to Keith:



I certainly feel no ill will towards you or Jim and we are certainly BBS friends.

But I repeat my belief that angry and ugly discussions of partisan politics will follow the gun rights discussion wherever it goes and most don't want it here, including me. There is an old saw about not discussing politics or religion unless you want to get into a fight.

If a Second Amendment section is added it doesn't make me any difference where they put it on the list. And of course it may remain in Misfires or be moved here.


After reneging on my first pledge I state for the second time I leave the last word to others on this thread.


Best,

Mike

italiansxs...I emailed Starbucks and thanked them for their support of my 2nd Amendment rights. I also called them at their head office and thanked them again. And below is a copy of an e-mail I sent to a couple of the anti-gun orgs:

"Going to my local Starbucks on Valentine's Day to show my support for their respect for the Constitution, and my 2nd Amendment rights.
Probably be one of the safest places I will be, all day........Grant Marquardt Elgin, MN"

Oh! italian, if you are the one using the term; "The Kenyan", keep up the good work......... Grant.