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Forums10
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Most Online1,335 Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 532 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 532 Likes: 1 |
Many vintage American guns that I am familiar with were built with with full and full chokes, probably because of the popularity of waterfowl hunting and trap shooting. When these guns and their full chokes were made, there were no plastic shot cups. Today, a great deal of high quality ammunition - lead, bismuth, Nice shot and perhaps other soft no-tox ammo suitable for vintage guns - is made with plastic shot cups. Have any of you used ammo with plastic shot cups in your vintage full choke barrels, for example duck hunting with Nice shot or bismuth? If so, are you comfortable that the plastic shot cup leave the muzzle without negative impact on the chokes or barrels?
Rich
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 |
Many thousands of rounds of plastic cupped lead shot through vintage full chokes with no bad experiences. The plastic does build up at the choke though.
16 gauge Parker choked full and full - 3,000 rounds in Argentina.
12 gauge Parker VH choked full and full - Shot 19 rounds of trap with it yesterday (7/8oz), several thousand since I bought it.
Best,
Mike
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 01/15/12 11:04 AM.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,961 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,961 Likes: 9 |
My old Parkers, LCS gather less plastic than my new Briley Ultimate tube set
bill
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 262 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 262 Likes: 4 |
Many vintage American guns that I am familiar with were built with with full and full chokes, probably because of the popularity of waterfowl hunting and trap shooting. When these guns and their full chokes were made, there were no plastic shot cups. Today, a great deal of high quality ammunition - lead, bismuth, Nice shot and perhaps other soft no-tox ammo suitable for vintage guns - is made with plastic shot cups. Have any of you used ammo with plastic shot cups in your vintage full choke barrels, for example duck hunting with Nice shot or bismuth? If so, are you comfortable that the plastic shot cup leave the muzzle without negative impact on the chokes or barrels? My 870 and 1100 trap guns have .038 and .037 constriction same as many of my classic doubleguns + or - a few thou. I too have shot thousands of rounds through classic doubles, all with shotcups and no issues what so ever.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859 |
About 10 years ago I was trap shooting using #7 steel shot in a 12 gauge Stevens 5100 with absolutely no il effects to the bores. Steve
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 532 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 532 Likes: 1 |
Thanks very much for the helpful feedback.
Rich
Rich
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703 Likes: 103 |
Rich, I wish you had not brought that question up. I've been shooting Bismuth Classic 4's and 5's in my old Parkers and Foxes with full choke for years and never considered that it might be a problem.
For whatever my experience might be worth, I've noticed no damage whatever, but I do keep the plastic build-up cleaned out of the barrels pretty consistantly...Geo
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189 Likes: 18 |
Some personal observations based on experience and guns examined & seen for sale at shows:
I don't think you have concern for choke damage w/full choke constrictions IF you stick to modern loads, even w/steel shot [much tougher plastic & better designs in the newer steel shot wads] & shot sizes of size 4 or smaller. Having said that, I would NEVER shoot anything but lead shot or bismuth in an FN or any of the older German guns [or any high grade gun for that matter] for the simple reason that I have seen and examined several that had their Full chokes bulged, presumably from the use of hard steel shot. It may have been too large shot as well, but I had no way of determining that as these are mostly guns that were for sale at shows I am speaking of. I have also seen guns w/heavily scored bbls. in the form of straight line striations [think crude straight rifling] from early steel shot loads where the pellets penetrated the wads' petals or wall. Again, I have no way of knowing the exact loads used to do that damage; it could have even been some enterprising sort who was using BB gun BB's w/regular lead shot wads! There was sufficient talk & discussion when steel first came into use to know wad petal penetration occured w/some early factory ammunition & recovery of some of those wads confirmed it. Too, some some pellets were overly hard & some early wads left exposed shot above the petals .. so I would avoid using any early or old steel ammuntion in any gun I was remotely concerned about, period. An 870 Express Magnum, Mossburg 500 or any of the inexpensive modern purpose built waterfowl guns can eat that stuff w/impunity. FWIW, I have an older 870 Wingmaster w/fixed Full choke constriction of .041 that has digested around ten flats [50 boxes of 25 cartridges] of 2&3/4" Steel #4 loads made by Remington, Federal & Winchester w/o any sign of damage whatsoever. I'm not suggesting you do that with your valued doubles, but a Browning BSS [Miroku mfg.] choked F&F can handle factory steel loads up to size 4 w/no fear & so can some other more modern doubles. I have shot 1&1/4oz. of Remington & Federal steel 4's through a 3" 12ga. Beretta 686 w/factory flush fitting 'Mod' screw-in chokes repeatedly to no ill effect & they remain easy to remove for cleaning or switching.
As to the shooting of lead shot target ammo w/plastic wads through full choke constrictions, none of us will have the opportunity to be around long enough to measure any wear or see any damage from it. Think ATA trap shooting .. Full chokes for the most part & endless shooting. They do OTHER stuff to damage their guns;-)
In summary, plastic used in wads is 'softer' than lead, don't sweat it's use.
Perhaps something here to help allay your concerns.
kind regards, tw
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859 |
A fellow posting on another site who lives close to the ocean talked about shooting several ducks and having them "explode". Later examination of his steel shot shells (left over from past seasons) revealed that saltwater had gotten into the shot and the steel pellets had literally rusted into large lumps. He didn't post whether or not it had damaged his gun barrel. Something to think about when using old steel shot shells. Steve
Last edited by Rockdoc; 01/15/12 01:29 PM.
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,136 Likes: 37
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,136 Likes: 37 |
I build my shotshells using the shot cup but not the entire shot wad. I do place a 1/4 inch dry felt wad and a 1/4 inch lubed wad and then the shot cup in that order. I do not get a plastic build up with this method.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
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