doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CLUELESS: Otto Bock? Pre-War? Please help

Hello,
Brand new to this forum and I am politely asking for some help with a side by side rifle I have. I hope I am posting in the correct forum.

MY DISCLAIMER: I am posting here to help my father gather information about the gun my grandfather left to him. I will admit up front, that I have no real knowledge of guns or collecting, so please be very patient with me.

BACKGROUND: This is what I have been told over the years regarding the gun itself. It came from a home in Berlin, Germany. It was sent home to my Great Grandmother in the U.S. by her son (my Grandfather) when he was 'clearing houses' in WW2. To my knowledge, it has not been fired since the 1940's.

GUN INFORMATION: The name on the gun is Otto Bock, Hoplieferant, Berlin. The word Nitro appears on both sides. There is a (serial?) number of 19207. This number appears in two different places on the gun (see pics). There are also many symbols, but my father and I do not know how to decipher these.

WHAT I'M AFTER: An overall understanding of the gun. Who made it? What year is it from? How does the condition look? What do each of the individual symbols/serial numbers mean?

I can answer any questions, but like I said, I don't know anything about guns, so you will have to speak to me like you are asking an 8-year old the questions. ha ha. I can also post more pictures if that helps you help me identify the gun.

Here it is...











[img]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn283/keep_it_warm/IMG_0482.jpg[/img]

The symbols are proof marks from when the gun was proof fired with an overload at the proof house prior to being sold. There should be others than the ones you posted. A vies of all of them would help us a lot in identifying it possibly dating it. Since you didn't mention it, is it safe to assume you didn't get the scope which was once fitted to its claw mount bases, or even the mounts.

Where else do I look for numbers/proof marks? Do I need to disassemble the gun to find them?

You are correct, no scope at all. Just the gun as you see it.

The numbers seen in the 3rd pic down (where the gun is cracked open) are 19207.

All the other numbers/proof marks shown further down in the pics were found under the barrel stock (geez, I hope that's what it's called. Where else on the gun would numbers/proof marks be?

Here is a better pic of the marks shown above...you can see them in one pic here:

Krupp Stahl- Krupp Steel-- first German made sporting gun I have yet seen with just that wording- usual steel grade might be- Krupp Special Gewehr LaufStahl- Krupp Special Gun barrel steel- of all the nickel bearing ordnance barrel steels of that era- Krupp was the best for machineability- damn good steel!~!

Otto Bock guns were often made for export, some of the stampings you have found for us indicate that this piece was made for export- possibly to Stoeger in NYC- a firm founded by Good Germans that later became America's Gun house- back in the days when you could order a M21 skeet gun for a few C'notes and have it shipped RR Express right to you- No BATF 4473 forms, etc-

Are there any markings on the scope bases- inside the dovetails? On the forearm inside- usually on the forearm iron. I may have a horn buttplate to replace the broken one on your gun, but would need dims from the existing one to be sure- Fine gun, as are/were all the German and Austrian Sporting guns!

Yeah, let's see the flats. From the images it appears that it was proofed in Zella-Mehlis post 1911 and with the Louis Kelber effort on the imported Krupp steel tubes, I would guess that it was made by one of the Schillings from the Zella-Mehlis area. Is the Nitro stamp in script? There should be a date stamp as well as a ledger number on the flats. Also there will be a diameter stamp in mm. Otto Bock was the firearms merchant/retailer.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here is where I begin to ask for your patience....

RUN WITH THE FOX: You want me to check the scope bases, inside the dovetails. Is that simply an eyeball check? Or is there disassembly required? (I'm at work on Tuesday morning now, gun is at home). The markings shown (Krupp-Stahl, etc) are from underneath the forearm of the gun.

ELLENBR: What are the flats? Is that the flat part of the gun when cracked open (like in the 3rd pic of my initial post?)

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, I just need to understand so I can take the correct pictures you might need to help me.

On your last image, the flats are the area from the left side of the image back to the end of the tubeset. There will be touchmarks there. It is the area where the flat portion of the tubeset interfaces with the receiver/water table. Can you say the the Nitro stamp is in script? The "Crown" over "G" touchmark means that the tube experienced proof with a solid projectile.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ok trying to keep it simple:
You need to remove the wood piece below the barrels and ahead of the triggers. There's a latch for this usually on the underside of the wood piece that you minipulate to do this. You can then pull the wood piece called the forend down and off the gun. After doing this use the lever to open the gun and you should be able to swing the barrels down and off the frame. The gun is now in 3 major pieces. There should be markings on the flat part above and forward of the triggers. We need to know what's marked there.
Jim

Nice rifle, looking forward to more photos.

ITALIANSXS: Thanks! Those are directions I can understand! I will most definitely do this as soon as I get home this afternoon. I'll take pics of every marking I see and post here later.

ELLENBR: The word Nitro appears on the side of each barrel. Here is one of the pictures posted above...but I enlarged it and messed with the brightness until I could see the Nitro word. Does this help? I can get a clear pic later.

Nitro Crown over N