doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help - German Hammer Gun 20 Ga (Pics)

Thanks everyone, Knowledge of you folks are awesome! never thought that markings could reveal so much.

Someone I know told me that only pre-war Simson's have any interest and this is not pre-war, but he was also willing to take it off my hands. I will hang on to it as it is a cute little gun in an awesome condition. Also all your posts have given me a new appreciation of the gun.

I too think it is a ladies gun as the LOP is short although I have not measured it.

Raimey - I am currently traveling but will post the pictures of the water table in a day or two.

Herbert

Raimey,
Yes, the frame is typical Ferlach, likely sourced from the Genossenschaft Maschinenhaus. The engraving is typical Ferlach as well, which is one of the reasons I think the gun was finished there.

With kind regards,
Jani

Could TK be Thomas Kulnig, saw on Hallowell web site that there was am Austrian maker code 43.

Herbert,
Maybe it could be him, but I doubt it.
Kulnig is an old Ferlach gunsmithing name so no problem there.
But I've never seen Ferlach initials on rib, only full names. But there are initials hidden inside of course.
Also I'm still inclined to think TK is a Czech gunsmith who sleeved the barrels...

With kind regards,
Jani

I concur with Jani that TK will represent a Bohemian craftsman. Mr. Hallquist was kind enough to forward me some images of a 20 bore Ferlach hammergun he used to own.







Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

So you all recon it's sleeved then?Well spotted Gunut
Anyway I thinks its a sweet little Gun in great nick.
I'd sure love one like it
Franc

As the gun still shows the crowned, double-head eagle of Austria -Hungary with the "1" on the breastplate, it was first proofed in Ferlach before 1919, not in 1925. The ledger number 4454.25 appears to have been altered in the last 3 digits. There are two different Bohemian lions. That on the right barrel comes from 1919 to 1930, possibly Weipert because it looks like a "2" to me. The other, fainter one on the left barrel, together with the "N in shield", is in use since 1931.

According to Richard Mahrholdt's Waffen-Lexikon, the crowned, double-head eagle was changed to single headed eagle (uncrowned) as late as 1929.

With kind regards,
Jani

Axel:

From the sources I've read there wasn't a true change in the proofmarks post 1919/WWI and the Austrian proofhouses continued their old ways and propagated the previous marks till September 1st, 1929 when the NP sub f or v replaced the final proofmark while Budapest, Prague & Weipert(from Nov. 1918) danced to the tune of another fiddler. Also Germany was in control from 1940 to 1945 and only in "Austrian & German guns & rifles" by Nobili have I seen mention of the single headed Hapsburg eagle( 09.01.1929-12/31/1937 ), while other sources note it didn't appear until 1945 where it was holding a sickle in the right talon and a hammer in the left talon. Nobili notes that from 01.01.1938 till 5.31.1940 the 2 headed Hapsburg eagle reemerged. I'd like to see some Austrian proofmarks from the 1929 - 1940 period. M4 may have an example from that period.

Thanks Jani for the image of the 1929 marks on a Browning Pocket Pistol as some might discern:


At this juncture, the number of proofs were reduced to a preliminary and a final where previously a scattergun could experience up to 4 with the 1st 2 using a solid projectile. Tubes with constriction were proofed/proved with shot.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

My $0.02 goes in favor of Jani's suggestion the gun was sleeved with Simson tubes in 1956. A very Soviet Block thing to do