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Joined: Jan 2010
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Originally Posted By: Ben Thayer
America doesn't need a proof house, America needs reamer control!


You got it!

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Fa-getta-bout-it.

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As I see it; in America you do have Proof testing which is that done by the manufacturers. No doubt to both protect the good name of the manufacturer and for some measure of safety for the consumer. You seem quite happy with that. But you have no way of checking a gun's safety after it has been messed around with by some back yard 'gunsmith' but for some odd reason you feel uncomfortable about some system where you can go and check (voluntarily, not compulsory) to see if it is safe or not. A bit like flying in an aeroplane that has no air worthiness certificate but you feel o.k. because it has still got two wings and someone has been round and kicked the tyres. Even with the certificate the plane might crash due to pilot error but I'd still like to know it is in a safe condition to fly in in the first place. Lagopus.....

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Ah, but no. You can voluntarily take your gun to a qualified gunsmith and get it tested, if you wish. I don't know what a proof house charges, but I'll bet a gunsmith is cheaper.

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Originally Posted By: lagopus
... But you have no way of checking a gun's safety after it has been messed around with by some back yard 'gunsmith' but for some odd reason you feel uncomfortable about some system where you can go and check (voluntarily, not compulsory) to see if it is safe or not. A bit like flying in an aeroplane that has no air worthiness certificate but you feel o.k. because it has still got two wings and someone has been round and kicked the tyres. Even with the certificate the plane might crash due to pilot error but I'd still like to know it is in a safe condition to fly in in the first place. Lagopus.....


With all due respect, an airworthiness certificate is issued at the time of registration. The certificate remains with that airplane for the life of the plane or until revoked thru an overt action by the regulator. Possession of an airworthiness certificate is in no way an indication of the actual condition of the airplane. The airplane can be "messed with" to no end if someone wants to ignore regulations. It happens in general aviation all the time. It even happens on major airlines. You've seen it in the news when it's a big deal. Like any laws, compliance is only as good as the people.

Condition of a gun, like condition of an airplane or any other machinery, is verified by inspection and/or test. Licensed proof house systems are one way of assuring a competent source for the inspections/tests. They are not the only way to verify the condition of a gun.

I'm not opposed to the existance of proof houses, but I am opposed to any regulatory action to mandate such a system. If someone thinks they can make money establishing a proof house in the USA, have at it. There are plenty of standards they can use without any further regulation.

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No disrespect intended, but I think most reviewing this thread understood Lagopus' insinuation in comparing an aircraft airworthiness certificate to the properly standardized and certified proofing of guns. Many comments have been made in this thread which question the necessity, feasibility and the sagacity of instituting a proof house in the United States. I think this is understandable considering many Americans fear of the ulterior motives of our government, especially during a time when extreme liberalism has control of the government. And because of this sentiment many Americans are unusually fearful and frankly terrified the government is going to break it's promise of the 2nd Amendment and take guns away from the lawful citizen. I for one do not believe this will happen with sporting guns nor do I believe a Proof House, like that instituted by an organization such as SAAMI, would increase the likelihood of our guns being taken away. The reason being, more gun control is coming with or without a Proof House....and you can count on that despite the maneuvers of the NRA. It boils down to this for me. The proper proofing of guns has absolutely nothing to do with gun control. It's primary goal would be that of consumer safety and to prevent fraud. It's cost would be offset by the increase in value of a gun as 'in proof' as compared to one 'out of proof'. Manufacturing companies in the US such as Mossberg, Ruger, Kolar plus many others would undoubtedly have their liability reduced because much of the onus would be placed with the Proof House in terms of liability. And, a legitimate Proof House would and should share reciprocity with foreign Proof Houses.


Socialism is almost the worst.
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Originally Posted By: buzz


....Many comments have been made in this thread which question the necessity, feasibility and the sagacity of instituting a proof house in the United States.

...I think this is understandable considering many Americans fear of the ulterior motives of our government...

....It's primary goal would be that of consumer safety and to prevent fraud.

....It's cost would be offset by the increase in value of a gun as 'in proof' as compared to one 'out of proof'...

....their liability reduced because much of the onus would be placed with the Proof House in terms of liability. And, a legitimate Proof House would and should share reciprocity with foreign Proof Houses.


Don't you think proof house proponents in this thread have shown plenty of ulterior motives. You're on board with backdoor gun control just because it's going to happen anyway.

When have you shown that values will increase or that current proof houses will accept even the slightest liability for gun damage or personal injury. Was it shown anywhere that consumer safety would be improved or that fraud could be prevented.

Would you want an American proof mark stamped on to your British best gun. I believe the ole horse gets beaten because some folks make personal agenda assumptions and pass them off as fact without justification.

How you going to force compliance. If you run into a bargain that's out of proof, are you going to buy it and proof it, or are you going to turn in the seller.

Last but not least, why do you want foreign laws or regulations applied to Americans in our own country. No disrespect intended to you, just disagree with the ideas and reasoning presented.

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Originally Posted By: buzz
And because of this sentiment many Americans are unusually fearful and frankly terrified the government is going to break it's promise of the 2nd Amendment and take guns away from the lawful citizen.


It's not a promise. It's a right guaranteed by the Constitution.


Practice safe eating. Always use a condiment.
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Originally Posted By: craigd


How you going to force compliance. If you run into a bargain that's out of proof, are you going to buy it and proof it, or are you going to turn in the seller.



Assuming proof is the law, then the answer is simple: the dealer in question gets turned in. If I'm a knowledgeable gun buyer and the guy is selling out of proof guns, contrary to the law, I want him out of the business so he doesn't perpetrate fraud upon the next buyer. Same as any other crook. Same as if I learn that the real "bargain" I'm about to buy is a stolen gun. Same as if I learn that the car dealer turned back the odometer.

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Larry you ever think of running for pubic office ?

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