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Thanks, Larry, for furthering my position that proof houses are unnecessary. It's in the hands of the gunmakers, which is exactly what the proof house system initially was as well...the gunmakers set the standard, which eventually became codified.

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Originally Posted By: Mike Bailey


....However I got Hollands to check it for me before sending it for proof. The proof house will not accept for the reasons below...

....Now Iīm not bothered, I donīt intend to sell it....



Thanks for a little more insight into the proofing process. Interesting to have the thought to steer away from the proof house.

I can't help but wonder what legal requirements would be put on the rifle by a proof house. It's also sad that according to earlier posts, the rifle can not be legally taken outside of the UK now.

Very nice rifle.

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown


....our guns are proofed by the manufacturers, adhering to our SAAMI proof standards. And that's been done for a very long time. I have an article from the American Rifleman in the 1930's, which shows the various designs of proof barrels used by many of the major American gun manufacturers.


Is this a 'fact' for or against an American proof house.

This may apply more to ammunition testing than firearm integrity. I've seen pictures, but don't believe I've every seen a new or bubba'd gun for sale with a proof barrel fitted to it. I believe an American proof house can be justified if someone feels like it, but I still haven't seen any factual justification.

Would anyone with say a valuable, historically unique Sauer, voluntarily have an American proof mark stamped on it. There's a reason Americans might bellyache, but pony up to have the proper proof marks stamped on their British best guns.

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craigd, it can be sent to me in Spain as we have a proof house accepted by the UK but I couldnīt send it back to the USA !! best, Mike

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Originally Posted By: Genelang
Thanks, Larry, for furthering my position that proof houses are unnecessary. It's in the hands of the gunmakers, which is exactly what the proof house system initially was as well...the gunmakers set the standard, which eventually became codified.


Right . . . except it applies to modified used guns as well as new ones, which ours does not.

Those interested in what proof REALLY is, as opposed to some here who equate it to the infamous tire and string test, need to read Vic Venters' article in the current (Jan/Feb) issue of Shooting Sportsman. Or, if you wish, you can continue to misunderstand and misconstrue what proof is all about.

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The Big Problem many seem to be overlooking here (although it has been mentioned) in comparing the US with England is the Brit's proof laws pre-date the breech loader. One can take a gun proofed in England from virtually any date & state what its original bore size & chamber length was, NOT SO in the US.

"IF" this proof was not made retro-active nothing would be accomplished,
"IF" it were made retro-active, Friend, you are opening a Pandoras's box of trouble.

My ca 1889 10 Ga Lefever Arms Co has an oversize bore (common on early Lefevers) & 3" chambers. "WHO" would determine if I went to sell it, if it would need proofing.
Similar situation with a ca 1910 16 Ga with 3" chambers, though standard bore.

3" shells are currently unavailable in either GA & to the best of my knowledge were "Never" a "Standard" in either. As has been pointed out these early "Long" chambered guns were not intended for "Magnum" loads, so for what would they have to be currently proofed.

Personally I feel the odds are these guns are both "Factory" originals, but if I sold them without proofing under the proposed laws, would I be subject to prosecution, if someoe else decided they had been modified.

A Very laarge amount of thought better be given to this subject before jumping on the band wagon, otherwise you just might get a "Tiger by the Tail" & not know how to turn him loose.

Last edited by 2-piper; 12/13/11 10:32 AM.

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If you guys did get a proof house over there and if there were ever any problems ,all us over here could go to endless speculation as to why . Go on you know you want one realy.

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: Genelang
Thanks, Larry, for furthering my position that proof houses are unnecessary. It's in the hands of the gunmakers, which is exactly what the proof house system initially was as well...the gunmakers set the standard, which eventually became codified.


Right . . . except it applies to modified used guns as well as new ones, which ours does not.

Those interested in what proof REALLY is, as opposed to some here who equate it to the infamous tire and string test, need to read Vic Venters' article in the current (Jan/Feb) issue of Shooting Sportsman. Or, if you wish, you can continue to misunderstand and misconstrue what proof is all about.


"Ours?" Iowa has a proof house?

Larry, you always get defensive when challenged, and resort to innuendo, but that's OK, that's just your estrogen kicking in.

If you can show any scientific reasons why guns should be tested over here, I will gladly accept these reasons. If not, then your point is invalid.

Last edited by Genelang; 12/13/11 04:37 PM.
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Gene, Have you at least read the informative article in the recent 'Shooting Sportsman' by Vic Venters which explains in detail the Birmingham Proof House?? He explains what they do thoroughly. It certainly does not appear to be superfluous or unnecessary work to me.


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Do you send your guns to be proofed in Birmingham? And if not, why not avail yourself of this valuable service?

Last edited by Genelang; 12/13/11 07:44 PM.
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