doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 3 inch 20g

My old VH Parker 32" 20 was ordered to be patterned with one ounce 3" and 3 drams of bulk smokeless. It is serial number 153,333. Does anyone here own my old gun? I would like her back.

A Parker Bros. in the 153xxx range would be a circa 1910 gun according to the tables in The Parker Story. None of the North American ammunition makers I have information on were offering more than 7/8 ounce of shot and 2 1/2 drams of DuPont Bulk smokeless powder in their 20-gauge shells, regardless of length, in those pre-WW-I years. I wonder what the pressures would have been with 3 drams of DuPont Bulk smokeless powder and 1 ounce of shot in a 20-gauge case?

With the advent of progressive burning smokeless powders in the early-1920s we got 1 ounce 20-gauge loads.

The I've got this box --



No mention of progressive burning powder or non-corrosive priming, so I'd guess the teens of very early 1920s?!?

Silvers, as you almost certainly know, the biggest advocate of the 3" 20 guage "magnum" loads in the mid-20th Century was gun writer Francis Sells.

He pushed the 3" 20 mainly as a "specialized" waterfowl gun with longish barrels and custom chokes, not as a generalist gun as it has been sold since then. IMO it is better for the use you put it to than shooting upland game, where it too often becomes a lame substitute for proper amounts of practice with efficient 20 guage loads.....

That VH is a two barrel set, #2 frame, both barrels are 32" with tight chokes, and the 20 gauge barrel is heavier than the 12. The reason I wrote it was a limited test is that I found this Parker in April, and the St Lawrence river gig in October was the first I had her out waterfowling. The gun was made for water and that's where she dunn good with those BCC 3-inch 20 gauge shells. Yep I read Francis Sell years ago and I liked how he stuck with data, not much subjective as with some current gun writers. Most here know I'm mainly a Fox guy. I call this Parker my Super 20 Parker because she's probably the closest I'll ever get to a 20 gauge Super Fox. Silvers

Researcher, I reviewed the order for #153,333 and find that the order, contrary to what I reported, does not specify the one ounce load. I am searching for the 20 gauge order that does specify that load. I am amazed at the 1 1/8 ounce box you posted a picture of. That is one rare box, probably scarcer than the boxes that sold at Wards this month.

One of my favorite waterfowl guns is a straight grip, 32" Damascus Parker DH made in 1919 on a No. 2 frame. I weighs 8 pounds even and is choked .027 in both barrels. It has 3" chambers and I shoot Federal Tungsten Polymer 3" 1 1/4 oz loads (I bought about 60 boxes of these on closeout at Cabelas so I am somewhat commited to the combination!).It digests these loads without a whimper and is very pleasant to shoot. Though "theoretically" inferior, I do not notice any practical handicap versus a 12 bore with a similar loading. I also have a 7 pound 30" Model 21 20 gauge Magnum that I use on occasion in Argentina. A few years ago I took along 6 boxes of lead 3" 1 1/4 oz #6 lead 20g Magnums and they performed very, very well on 75-80 ducks I shot with them.

I've been on the hunt for one of the Stevens 3 inch 20 gauge pumps for ages, but I want one with at least a 30 inch barrel. The few I've had a chance at have all been 26 or 28. The dream gun would be the 32 inch model, can't be many of those out there.


Destry

I'm not sure when the current 3" 20ga load appeared, but in the 1940 Shooters Bible--which lists all the shotshells available from, I think, all the American ammo makers--there are no 3" 20's listed. There are some 1 oz 20ga loads, and at least a couple of them (Xpert Super Trap and Leader Super Speed) are in 2 1/2" hulls.

The 3-inch Magnum 20-gauge was a post WW-II item. I think the first commercial listing was the Magnum Model 21 in the January 2, 1954 Winchester catalogue. However, there are no 3-inch 20-gauge shells listed in the January 2, 1954 Winchester Ammunition catalogue and price list!?! The Olin brothers and their buddies had been playing around with 3-inch 20-gauge Model 21s for some time before that. In the 1955 Winchester ammunition catalogue the 20-gauge 3-inch Mag. is offered with 1 1/8 ounce of Lubaloy #6 or 1 3/16 ounce of Lubaloy #4. That year the 2 3/4 inch "magnum" shells were introduced with the 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge. The 3-inch 20-gauge Mag. offerings remained the same through the 1959 price list. For 1960 the 3-inch 20-gauge magnum with 1 1/4 ounce of chilled shot was added to the offereings, while the Lubaloy loads were still 1 1/8 and 1 3/16. The Winchester/Western offerings in 3-inch 20-gauge shells remained the same thru 1968 where my old catalogues play out.

If anyone would like to buy that box of Remington - UMC Arrow 20 Gauge, 2 7/8" #6 shells that Researcher has pictured can buy them here: http://members.gunsinternational.com/detail.cfm?gun_id=100197944&pop_up=1

For sale on Gun's Int'l for $175.00. 10 bucks to Dave if anyone here buys them.

I hope I haven't bent any rules doing this.

Jolly