doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proof House in USA??

Buzz:

In the real world Buzz, you JUST CANNOT protect all the people all the time........especially at the cost of the entire shooting public, as in this case.......once you open Pandora's box bad things grow out of control.......

Some People will ALWAYS shoot the wrong ammunition in guns, shoot guns with plugged bores and so forth......just the way it is........some are cautious, some are not....some are intelligent, some are not.........

We don't need big brother to govern everything, it's bad enough already.......

Sorry, we cannot legislate against stupidity, it's been tried......

The reality is there are many unsafe things out there. The reality is that the 'regulator' who decides what is unsafe will decide that all guns are unsafe. I wouldn't take my right to choose too lightly.

Buzz - as should be obvious by now, the real reason for the American Revolution was gun owners seeking freedom from the oppression of the London and Contintental Proof Houses....

On a slightly more serious note, anyone know if there has been any studies on the relative rate of injury to gun owners from burst barrels in countries with and without proof houses?

Hello everybody:

I was reading this topic and think that the proof house does not need to be necesary ruled by your goverment.
You are the land of free enterprise, so an independient proof house could work (SAAMI comes to my mind).
Reputable and knowledge people put the rules, do the tests and you pay for the service; even a good bussiness could be.

Well, just an idea!

Best,

Maybe proof loads could be provided for us voluntary tire testers...

jOe I see you fasten your buttstock to the inside of the tire while I tape mine to the side wall. I think your idea is better because you can scientifically measure how far the tire slides to the rear with proof loads. Do you proof both barrels at once or do them individually?

A. This type study would require numerous separate classifications, I doubt any such real world documentation exists country by country, with or without:

1.)....Altered barrels that have been butchered and had barrel steel removed anywhere....
a. including shortening.....

2.)....Factory barrels that have NEVER had any steel alterations....

3.)....Bursts from OPERATOR ERROR....
a. plugged bores during firing....
b. wrong ammunition, size or length or load....
c. misuse, i.e.-old rusted deteriorated junk guns with zero maintenance being fired with modern ammo....

4.)....Bursts from metal fatigue alone under normal pressures and conditions in well maintained guns....

5.)....European Proof House "OVERSTRESS" metal fatigue FIRINGS which fail shortly thereafter....
a. such as in Ballistix999's case with his old Clarke hammer 20 bore which was "re-proofed" with maximum nitro loads and failed I think on the sixth (6th) shot afterwards......

As you can see Doverham, the list could go on and on and the bean counters/data compiler's would have a field day with this one.......and a few million dollars later, ultimately no agreement or conclusion.....

The stupidity factor (operator error) would LOOM LARGE in this type of a study as operator error probably accounts for the majority of bursts in any country I believe.......

I think Homeless Joe has a great idea for a new business.
I think he could set up an American "Old tire" proof house .
He could make a fortune!:)

Thanks, Doug - there are certainly are lot of nuances to that kind of information that could be abused/misused/misinterpreted by a regulator.

I asked the question from a "solution in search of a problem" perspective - is there any documented indication of a safety problem from unproofed guns that might warrant the need for a proof house?

Of course, if you wanted to promote proof houses, offer makers an absolute defense to product liability for proofed barrels. If the barrels pass proof, any subsequent malfunction would be deemed the result of operator error. (That approach ignores the question about how much proofing weakens barrels).

Gun proofing reflects the philosophical divide between the US and Europe on the regulation of risks generally. In Europe, there is risk until proven otherwise. In the US, there is no risk until it is proven. Europe uses bureaucrats to regulate risk, we use trial lawyers.

SERIOUSLY- How many guns( older guns) do we know of that have blown up or had a problem such as the current worry about a proof house. I have been around thousands of rounds fired and only know of two that have blown and they were modern or semi-modern steel barrels. Sherman Bells DGJ articles with proof loads in dilapidated damascus barrel guns tell us the story.