doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Do you know of an engraver named Kurt Jager Mainz?

The shotgun in question was part of a work trade between Shelhamer & Kornbrath. Shelhamer did the restocking on this gun and Kornbrath engraved a Winchester 52 sporter for Shelhamer. It was communicated at that time that this was his journeyman’s piece. This was reported to me by a former employ of the Niedner Rifle Corp in an interview. Since then I have acquired letters written by Shelhamer to Kornbrath confirming the work trade. After Mr. Shelhamer received the engraved 52 he felt the trade was lopsided and offered to make Kornbrath yet another stock. To the best of my knowledge this shotgun is the only known firearm that was engraved by and owned by R.J. Kornbrath. I’m unsure where it is today but believe that it might now be at the Cody museum.

Bull...Kornbraths personal handmade shotgun was not made by himself....Kornbrath apprenticed as an engraver...not as a gunsmith....The Kornbrath family sent me all the remaining files back in the late 80's...the documents say nothing of him ever being a practicing gunsmith or apprenticing as one...These files were entrusted to me to see to it that his history doesn't get twisted with the passage of time...It's common knowledge who made that gun, the reason no corrected this mistake is for fear of the retatilation one recieves here at the BBS...and here we go again...pay close attention to the next responders to this posting...they will have nothing tangible to offer, just hateful responces from people who know little to nothing about Kornbrath.

OK, who made the gun and where is it now. Some of us would like to look at it. You're right, Robert, I don't know much about RK, I just like his work. However, I would like to know more, so where do I read about it? By the way, I don't notice in Mr. Petrov's unedited post that he said that RK built the test gun. He states that RK engraved it. Bill Murphy

Bill,
“During one of these I found his Journeyman piece” Kornbrath apprenticed as an engraver and his “Journeyman” piece would have been the engraving on the gun. The shotgun if I remember was Austrian or German made and I think it’s now in Cody. I guess I mistakenly thought everyone would know that.

You can't use a gun for a journeymans piece unless you made it yourself. As badly as I want to share the truth about this aspect of collecting, I'm reluctant to put the info into the hands of sharks who would use the info to shark young collectors out of their hierlooms. I'll tell you this, Kornbrath and Baker collectors are to be treated with extreme caution in every aspect of dealing. For decades, Baker collectors kept quiet about the fact that all (or most) high grade Bakers were engraved by Kornbrath. The less everyone else knows, the better their chances of buying the gun at 10 cents on the dollar. There is no reason why most Kornbrath engraved guns have history of being stolen other than greed. Kornbraths personal gun was handmade by Emil Flues and Sam Koch (sp?). There is nothing published about the subject. Most of Flues high grade guns were engraved by Kornbrath and were also stolen one by one, except Tom Mix's gun. That's why they never see the light of day. This includes the Ras Tafari gun, the most important gun in African American history. The Etheopian Culture Museum in Addis Ababa can't or wont account for it's whereabouts. Not only is Korbraths personal Flues gun on display at the Cody museum, it's the museums premier piece. Unfortunately none of my Flues guns were engraved by Kornbrath. Emil's personal gun was engraved by himself. Every good Newton rifle was finished by Flues, but be careful, there are alot of post 1919 Newtons out there.

Robert,
Thanks for sharing this information. No need to be so defensive. I don't see anyone disagreeing with you. Jake

Jakearoo, thanks, your restoring my hopes for this bullitin board system, but take a look at my recent posting on "when is a sidelock not a sidelock?" ...I genuinely tried to answer OWD's question with logic and example, but a few members just couldn't refrain from muddling up the entire post with rediculous comments about words they never liked...to the point where OWD doesn't even want the answer to the question he posted. Everyone here at the Doublegun BBS was about to see something they have never seen before, a semi-sidelock, but these wingnuts are more concerned with the pecking order than the truth or a correct answer...so everyone loses...I back all my statements with reference or specimen as opposed to statements like "Harry Comstock worked for Baker, let me check my notes"...and thats the end of it...The only reason that I responded to this post was to clear the bum scoop being passed about Kornbrath...Believe me, if this member could back his statements about Kornbrath, he would...Did you notice that he claimed that he found Kornbraths journeymans piece? You don't "find" anything at a museum...of course now he will claim that it was he that "found" that in fact it was Emil Flues who actually produced the gun...and that it was he that "found" that Emil Flues was the final finisher for Newton Rifle Corp. without reference or specimen to back it up..you mark my words...

Can you give me some information on the gun you’re talking about at the Cody museum? What engraving is on the sides, can you tell me any features such as gauge, what is written on the barrels, stock style and such? At this point I’m not sure we are even talking about the same gun.

Good idea...in fact, perhaps I should turn over all my research work to you...you wouldn't give me the time of day...thanks but no thanks...you can do your own research...I've already given you miles more info than you would give anyone else including me...I would have NEVER responded to any of your posts except the fact that you were trying to pass bum scoop to about Kornbrath to the BBS members...I can't wait for one of the other members who lives near Cody to confirm the truth (independently) to the other board members...Now I know that I am supposed to talk civil to you, but I will never forget the time you bashed me here at the BBS...tell me one good reason that I shoud assist you after what you did to me, before you knew who I was?...go ahead, keep bashing new members with you skewed knowledge...I think you've shown your true colors...there is absolutly no reason for you and I to ever communicate in the future...I would not have this time if you weren't trying to pass bum scoop...I promice never to communicate with you. please try to do the same...In the name of peace, I will no longer respond to your posts...Now leave it at that...Peace

Students of the gun!
I'd say that well under ten per-cent of us(BBS'ers) care about research, catalogs and old papers - its all about case colors, don't you know - we're simple that way.
Now - I do like a nick-nack or two, but this is way too much lads!
Post some pics of your guns, and make-up stories like we all do!